Rodding for ground floor wall hung toilet

[cakeman72]

I'm a bit confused about how Section H1 covers ground floor toilet drains, specifically about clearance of blockages. I gather H1 is aimed at the drains downstream of the soil vent pipe, but assume similar requirements apply to ground floor (underground) laterals? Paragraph 2.46 begins with "Sufficient and suitable access points should be provided for clearing blockages from drain runs which cannot be reached by any other means." . Would 'other means' include moving the toilet pan and rodding via the open pipe end? What if you have a wall hung toilet that can't be easily moved? I've seen plenty of ground floor toilets before but never with an inspection cover inside the house.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I wouldn't want to fit any WC that didn't have some means of access externally for clearing blockages, last thing you want to be doing is removing a pan to try and unblock from inside the building, if it can at be avoided.

What are the drainage arrangement for the WC in question, i.e. does the soil pipe go down through the floor, out the wall, internal stack?

 

[cakeman72]

The soil vent pipe is inside tucked into a sort of alcove in the corner of the building and boxed in. The ground floor toilet is next to it and there is a short (less than a foot) connecting pipe that runs above ground , also boxed in at floor level. The toilet needs to be moved a couple of metres away but will be on the opposite side of the room, so the pipe needs to go underneath floor level which is solid not suspended. A pumped system is out of the question.

I don't understand what the normal arrangement for ground floor toilets would be, there must be millions of examples all over the country where the pipe is underground and I always assumed that they would get rodded from the toilet itself when there is a blockage is this not the case?

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I don't understand what the normal arrangement for ground floor toilets would be, there must be millions of examples all over the country where the pipe is underground and I always assumed that they would get rodded from the toilet itself when there is a blockage is this not the case?

Normal arrangement would be for the drain to drop down to required level, either immediately behind the pan, or via a stub stack in a suitable position, then run horizontally to outside the building and connect to the outgoing sewer via an inspection chamber, to allow upstream access toward the WC/Stub Stack.

Your proposal may get away with not providing access to the underfloor run, provided this section is installed with a sensible fall on the pipework from pan to stack. Any blockage in this section then may be able to be pushed through to the stack by plunging the pan, but I would be more concerned what arrangements are available to accessing the underground run to the existing stack, as this is the most likely area for issues to arise.

 

[cakeman72]

Normal arrangement would be for the drain to drop down to required level, either immediately behind the pan, or via a stub stack in a suitable position, then run horizontally to outside the building and connect to the outgoing sewer via an inspection chamber, to allow upstream access toward the WC/Stub Stack.

Thanks for this explanation, but how would it be possible to rod the first drain (the branch from the WC, bolded above) from an inspection chamber downstream of the stack? Surely this would require the ability to 'steer' the drain rods up the 90 degree rest bend below the stack, then into the branch from the stack, which doesn't seem feasible? How would one access this branch (pipe connecting the WC to the stack) if the blockage is in this location, or would physical access to the branch not be considered necessary (because you can use a plunger to clear that first section?). I am asking about typical ground floor arrangements here rather than my case specifically.

Your proposal may get away with not providing access to the underfloor run, provided this section is installed with a sensible fall on the pipework from pan to stack. Any blockage in this section then may be able to be pushed through to the stack by plunging the pan, but I would be more concerned what arrangements are available to accessing the underground run to the existing stack, as this is the most likely area for issues to arise.

Please could you clarify this slightly, as you first say that I may 'get away' with not providing access to the branch, but then go on to say that you would be concerned about not having access? Am I missing something?

Many thanks for your responses and sorry for the amount of follow on questions, I'm just trying to wrap my brain around the specifics.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Thanks for this explanation, but how would it be possible to rod the first drain (the branch from the WC, bolded above) from an inspection chamber downstream of the stack? Surely this would require the ability to 'steer' the drain rods up the 90 degree rest bend below the stack, then into the branch from the stack, which doesn't seem feasible? How would one access this branch (pipe connecting the WC to the stack) if the blockage is in this location, or would physical access to the branch not be considered necessary (because you can use a plunger to clear that first section?). I am asking about typical ground floor arrangements here rather than my case specifically.

Rare for the vertical section to block, usual point if it does, is on the bend at the bottom of the stack, and then usually following movement which has led to the bend becoming displace or damaged. If the Branch pipe from the WC to stack was to block, it can usually be cleared by plunging the pan, once the waste is moved along to the junction, gravity will take over and a copious amount of water behind it will see it gone. Worst case scenario, pan would have to come out, but even then it would only usually be the section from pan to stack that has anything in it.

Please could you clarify this slightly, as you first say that I may 'get away' with not providing access to the branch, but then go on to say that you would be concerned about not having access? Am I missing something?

I would be concerned about having no access to the underground run. Trying to clear that from inside by removing the pan would require use of High pressure water jetting, which will not do your interior furnishings any favours....

Once it gets to the bend and comes up into the Building, it is less likely to block, and if it does, see above.

 

[HERTS P&D]

I would suggest having an access point fitted to the vertical soil stack approx 1.2m above the floor level. This can be used to clear a blockage with a mini jet causing minimal fuss.

Andy