safe zones question

[kirkgas]

i'm a plumber but interested as the sparks on our kitchen refurb job dont run cables horizontally or vertically from high level cooker switch to switch behind cooker, they run it at an angle behind metal capping but i'm sure a drill would go through it, after tiling you would be drawn to drilling at a 45 degree angle to the line of the switches as you would think the cables would be in the safe zone but are the safe zones requirewd if the cable is behind capping
ta

 

[ericmark]

Capping is not the armour required to protect cables. Mechanically protected against damage sufficient to prevent penetration of the cable by nails, screws and the like is often considered as being 3mm plate. I have looked for BS EN 50085 to find thickness required but have failed.

However all the capping would need earthing and normally it is only there to stop the plasterers trowel.

With all these regulations of course they are not just to do with electricians and it does not matter if it is the cavity wall insulation, Loft insulation or plaster it is as much the responsibility of following trade as electrician. I know in most cases it is quite obvious where wires are to be covered but where a socket outlet is obscured by kitchen cupboards then it could be considered that the kitchen fitted should provide protection for the cable.

Supplies to washing machines and like are normally through an isolator switch which will show cable position but I have seen where plans have been changed resulting in socket outlets being covered and abandoned. I have one which is covered by a radiator but in that case it can still be seen.

Even when the cables do follow correct routes they can still cause problems. I have a horizontal cable between two light switches which is in the permitted zone but in most cases it would return to ceiling and then drop to second light switch so it was still hit when installing water supply to fridge. And even with all cables in my house being protected by RCD's since 1984 it still gave quite a belt.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

i'm a plumber but interested as the sparks on our kitchen refurb job dont run cables horizontally or vertically from high level cooker switch to switch behind cooker, they run it at an angle behind metal capping

If you are sure that the cables won't be more than 50mm below the surface of the wall (the actual wall, not the front face of the tiling) then you need to bring all that to a crashing halt right now.

You need to tell the following people the following things, and that you aren't interested in hearing any lies from them about how it's OK.

1) Tell the electricians that their work is dangerous, and that any EIC they issue will be fraudulent.

2) Tell the people who employ or manage or subbed to the electricians that their work is dangerous, and that any EIC they issue will be fraudulent.

3) Tell the end client that the electricians work is dangerous, and that any EIC they issue will be fraudulent.

4) Take photos and pass the information on to TSO and Select.

 

[ColJack]

you're making the asumption that it's wired in plain old T+E there BAS..

if it's wired in a cable with an earthed metalic sheath then it doesn't need to be in the "safe zones" to comply... ( it's still bad practice not to though.. )

 

[kirkgas]

BAS and ColJack, channels are cut about 30-40mm deep, T&E cable used and covered with metal capping then plastered over, capping meets and misses where ever it pleases, just looks like a sh1t job to me, i appreciate some 1st fix work can be a bit ropey, we have all done some, but not dangerous, it just annoys me that people do this type of work and seem to get away with it, might have a word with someone on the QT to see what quality checks should be getting done
thanks for the guidance

 

[ColJack]

oh well in that case yes, everything BAS has said ( concerning this anyway ) is right..

 

[ericmark]

If one uses metal capping no earthed then I would think 522.6.8 "the internal construction of which includes metallic part" comes into play. So the 50mm rule does not apply. And from what you say it is completely out of spec.
Although all what BAS says it true. I would be careful who you upset. To warn the site manager that the work is not up to spec and if anyone checks the work he may find he will need to get it all re-done.

Little comment like no skin off my nose but your a good guy and I would not like to see you get into trouble over it. Likely you will be thanked.

But of course making a fuss could affect your own job. One does need to be careful being a whistle blower and leaking it to your MP has resulted in one guy losing his job already!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Oh well - take care of #1 then.

Just hope you can live with yourself if you find out that someone was killed because of dangerous wiring you didn't do enough to get fixed.

And someone has died because of cables installed in a kitchen just like you describe, and left 2 small children with no mother, so if you get nowhere with the list of 1-4 above, write to Baroness Tonge at the HoL and tell her what you found and that nobody was prepared to stop the electricians from working like that.