Safety and smart devices?

[ericmark]

The standard light switch and also for that matter the standard RCBO/MCB don't isolate as they don't switch the neutral, however in the main they are good enough to ensure the bulb has no line parts when renewing them, so if switched off at the wall light switch even one of the cob bulbs with exposed line wires would not give you a shock even if the earth/neutral could trip a RCD.

However that is not the case with electronic switches, some current is required to work the switch, as to if this is dangerous, or better or worse to a standard switch I don't know, hence the thread.

I know with a smart switch in my case Energenie if I remove the bulb it auto switches off, so that may be safer, how ever never tested to see if there is a voltage at the bulb holder with bulb removed.

With the socket also remove power to socket, and when power is returned the socket is off, again not tested if any voltage when socket switched off.

However the timers will still switch on at the pre-set time, so the lamp could switch on while your changing it.

I am about to fit more smart light switches and sockets mainly so we can switch on lights before leaving car to see way to house, the PIR switches off the lights before I am in house, and since I reverse up drive, the car does not trigger lights, so smart switch means I can switch them on and they will stay on.

Not really worried about safety as by end of this weekend all will be RCD protected, however just wondered about the whole idea of a socket that can be remotely switched on, it could have any item plugged in, in my case will be a standard lamp, but could be an electric drill or vacuum cleaner, I have used one with the AC plugged into it so I can cool down house before my return.

So what do you think about smart switches, are they safe? Could one have set one to switch on at 6 pm every night and forgot it was set to do it, and switched the vacuum off at the wall?

Thoughts please.

 

[JohnW2]

So what do you think about smart switches, are they safe? Could one have set one to switch on at 6 pm every night and forgot it was set to do it, and switched the vacuum off at the wall?

I'm not quite sure what the bit about the vacuum (I presume cleaner) means, but there is obviously a risk of anything which switches electricity on (maybe 'unexpectedly') without human involvement - and that's as true of clockwork or electro-mechanical time switches as it is of a 'smart' switch.

It's also probably the reason why electricity suppliers are, even if not believed by some people, seemingly adamant that they will not use the 'remote disconnection' facility of 'smart meters' - since if they subsequently 'remotely re-connect (without their personnel present at the rpemises), there is no telling 'who might be touching what' at the moment of ('unexpected') 'remote re-connection' ... with the risk that they could end up as the Headline in the Sunday papers!

Kind Regards, John

 

[winston1]

It's also probably the reason why electricity suppliers are, even if not believed by some people, seemingly adamant that they will not use the 'remote disconnection' facility of 'smart meters' - since if they subsequently 'remotely re-connect (without their personnel present at the rpemises), there is no telling 'who might be touching what' at the moment of ('unexpected') 'remote re-connection' ... with the risk that they could end up as the Headline in the Sunday papers!

Kind Regards, John

Indeed, but does not the same argument apply to re energising after a power cut, which they seem quite happy to do?

 

[ericmark]

Using one of these

anyone would realise it is some sort of smart device and it may auto switch on. But using one of these

there is nothing which shows this may auto switch on. Same with this

there is nothing to say this may auto switch on, and of course with the socket would not want a freezer plugged into it, as with a power cut it would remain off.

I note gas will not re-energise the supply without informing occupants, electric will, seems there was a power cut affecting trains, and in some cases people left the trains and walked, not so bad with over head power, but with a live rail as used in Liverpool to Chester line clearly a problem.

However I used one of those sockets to power an exist alarm in my mothers house, it was set to switch off when carers were due, and auto back on when they should have left, it also allowed us to switch it off with a remote when callers came, it worked well combining timed and remote control together, on moving it was used to turn on central heating pump, and has really worked well, however I had forgot I had set times, and pump was run a few times when not required, no harm done.

However I have seen people with off electric fires, and food mixers at the switch on the plug, having them auto restart could present a danger, on the other hand with a power cut, if you did not turn a fire off, and it was plugged into a smart socket which did not have times set, it would auto switch off, so in some cases could increase safety.

But I think they should be marked, even if just SMART written on them, to warn people they can auto switch on.

 

[JohnW2]

Indeed, but does not the same argument apply to re energising after a power cut, which they seem quite happy to do?

Up to a point, but people know that 'accidental' power cuts are often brief, sometimes very brief, and therefore are probably fairly cautious - realising that power might return at any moment.

However, as you point out, there is always a risk when an installation is re-energised 'remotely'. We and they seem to accept this when there is a power cut through no fault (or action) of the supplier - and, indeed, usually just want the supply to be restored as soon as possible (despite the 'risk').

However, if the need for (and risk of) re-connection came about because of a deliberate act on the part of the supplier then, morally, if not also legally, they would have been responsible for having, by deliberate action, brought about an additional risk that needn't have been there.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

... But using one of these [...] there is nothing which shows this may auto switch on. Same with this [....] there is nothing to say this may auto switch on ...

I think that anyone who uses a socket which may 'auto switch on', perhaps unexpectedly and/or when the house is unoccupied, has to accept that they are taking a risk, and has to satisfy themselves that that risk is more than balanced by the perceived 'benefits' of using such a device.

You asked whether such things are 'safe', and the answer surely has to be that they must be 'less safe' than a simple traditional socket, even if the risks/dangers are very small?

Kind Regards, John