Scantronic 9800 - Explanation of Zones A, Part Set B & C

[ThePobmyster]

As can be seen from previous posts I am currently attempting to re establish an inherited Scantronic 9800 alarm system, decommissioned some years ago. I am slowly getting my head around the operations of the Keypad (Series 3200)

What I am now trying to get straight in my head is the zoning.
I have what I believe to be quite a simple arrangement.

Cct1 = PIR Hallway (If I remember back far enough I think a door contact was also in circuit with the PIr but I may be wrong?)
Cct2 = PIR Living Room
Cct3 = Door contact Garage
Cct3 = Panic Alarm in Bedroom

I have now managed to enter engineering mode (E) and I think I have seen the configuration settings for the four circuits. after entering E mode I typed:

01 which displayed (scrolling) FE (Final Exit) followed by b (armed in part set B ) followed by 1 (i think is cct number?)
02 which displayed Al (Normal Alarm) followed by b followed by 2
03 which displayed Al (Normal Alarm) followed by b followed by 3
04 which displayed FE (Final Exit) there appeared to be no value for the "y" setting followed by 4
05 to 08 indicated nu (Not Used)

The Keypad indicates 3 zones (A,B and C) each with a led alongside it, although to date I have not seen these leds illuminate.

An idiots guide would be very much appreciated

 

[josh451]

On the 9800, A is the full set, B and C are the part sets. The LED's will illuminate when that current part set is armed.

With regard to the zoning, a contact should be placed on the front door, as this can end any excess exit time, and arm the system. If you have to pass any detectors, they should be set as entry route, or final exit if it is the 1st detector to be tripped, when disarming.

The panic button you mention needs to be set as a PA zone.

What size premises is the system installed in? The 9800 is a fairly big panel, and two pir's with only one contact on a garage door isn't a lot of coverage. I may be wrong, however.

Don't forget a new battery

 

[ThePobmyster]

On the 9800, A is the full set, B and C are the part sets. The LED's will illuminate when that current part set is armed.

With regard to the zoning, a contact should be placed on the front door, as this can end any excess exit time, and arm the system. If you have to pass any detectors, they should be set as entry route, or final exit if it is the 1st detector to be tripped, when disarming.

The panic button you mention needs to be set as a PA zone.

What size premises is the system installed in? The 9800 is a fairly big panel, and two pir's with only one contact on a garage door isn't a lot of coverage. I may be wrong, however.

Don't forget a new battery

Josh451, thanks for your input, information on the zoning will be most useful. So to confirm, you cannot have a PIR as your front door entry/exit cct, it has to be a contact block.

Sorry, but I am still struggling to understand the purpose of what you call the the Full and Part sets.(A,B & C) What do you mean by Full Set, a full compliment of circuits, i.e. all 8 circuits wired
Why would all of my x4 circuits have been configured as Part Set B and not just A

With regard to size, Yes it is a big panel If i was starting from scratch I may have looked for a simpler system The system had alot more monitored points, I think they were just daisy chained into the same circuits. I have chossen to drop a number of these additional points as I have done alot of work improving general security (improved quality of doors, locks, combinations of yale and digital, incorporated CCTV etc....)

Also, , could you offer an explanation and example of use for the following:
Zone Types:
24 hour zone? (Does this imply time intervals can be configured,I was not aware you could configure periods of time for the alarm system to be active and inactive, thought the system was either armed or disarmed?) or is this for external monitoring services offered by some companies like ADT?
Zone Attributes:
Soak test?
Double Knock?
Omit Allow? (Would I be correct in assuming that if a cct or zone has this attribute it will be included should you choose to use the OMIT ZONES 1-8 feature)

Thanks.............

 

[josh451]

On the 9800, A is the full set, B and C are the part sets. The LED's will illuminate when that current part set is armed.

With regard to the zoning, a contact should be placed on the front door, as this can end any excess exit time, and arm the system. If you have to pass any detectors, they should be set as entry route, or final exit if it is the 1st detector to be tripped, when disarming.

The panic button you mention needs to be set as a PA zone.

What size premises is the system installed in? The 9800 is a fairly big panel, and two pir's with only one contact on a garage door isn't a lot of coverage. I may be wrong, however.

Don't forget a new battery

Josh451, thanks for your input, information on the zoning will be most useful. So to confirm, you cannot have a PIR as your front door entry/exit cct, it has to be a contact block.

Sorry, but I am still struggling to understand the purpose of what you call the the Full and Part sets.(A,B & C) What do you mean by Full Set, a full compliment of circuits, i.e. all 8 circuits wired
Why would all of my x4 circuits have been configured as Part Set B and not just A

With regard to size, Yes it is a big panel If i was starting from scratch I may have looked for a simpler system The system had alot more monitored points, I think they were just daisy chained into the same circuits. I have chossen to drop a number of these additional points as I have done alot of work improving general security (improved quality of doors, locks, combinations of yale and digital, incorporated CCTV etc....)

Also, , could you offer an explanation and example of use for the following:
Zone Types:
24 hour zone? (Does this imply time intervals can be configured,I was not aware you could configure periods of time for the alarm system to be active and inactive, thought the system was either armed or disarmed?)
Zone Attributes:
Soak test?
Double Knock?
Omit Allow? (Would I be correct in assuming that if a cct or zone has this attribute it will be included should you choose to use the OMIT ZONES 1-8 feature)

Thanks.............

Its better off putting a contact on the front door, that's the correct way to do it.

Forget the engineer programming for a second, put yourself in the customers shoes. The full set is all the detectors are armed, parts sets, (B and C in your case) are where certain parts of the system are armed, for example, downstairs detectors armed, upstairs off. Certain zones can change function, a detector in the hall, set as entry route, can be changed to start the entry timer, but lets not get too technical

As for previous programming, I cannot comment as different people expect different things from an alarm system. What one person wants isn't necessarily what another wants, maybe "b" was used to enter/exit via another door, who knows??

24hrs; Internal sounders when unset, full alarm when set. Armed all the time. Used them previously for monitoring fire doors, emergency exits, that sort of stuff.

Soak test, when a new detector is installed, engineers can but it on test. Doesn't usually give an alarm, but all events are recorded in the log, and a notification is given to the user. Used for problematic zones.

Double knock: Certain amount of activations before an alarm is generated, usually 2. Reduces false alarms. Don't put on door contacts, PA's or smokes.

You are correct on the Omit Allow.

 

[Alarm]

Keeping it on the same thread stops us from going post to post.

Please keep it on one thread or it looks like your ignoring other answers.

 

[ThePobmyster]

Keeping it on the same thread stops us from going post to post.

Please keep it on one thread or it looks like your ignoring other answers.

Ok Noted , this is my first Forum so unsure of etiquette.
Certainly not ignoring anyones opinion, its all been good stuff
Question? but would I have got Josh451 input on the previous (my original thread), this thread being noted as Zoning query, original thread being noted as Interconnection query
I assume Josh451 found me due to my new FORUM heading???

Anyway, thanks for everyones help to date, really moving me to a resolution I think

 

[ThePobmyster]

Evening All,

So I have redesigned my alarm layout slightly and will need to reprogram my Scantronic 9800 to accomodate 3 additional circuits before I reinstall this weekend.

Does the following setup look sensible?

Keypad will be just inside front door, so system is set for entry time of 60 seconds, exit time 20 seconds.

Cct 1- Front Door
This will be a door contact
Scantronic configure 01 Al (normal alarm)

Cct 2 - Hall Way
This will be a PIR (will be triggered when I open front door)
Scantronic configure 02 Al FE (final exit)

Cct 3 - Living Room
This will be a PIR
Scantronic configure 03 Al

Cct 4 - Garage door/Kitchen
This will be door contact
Scantronic configure 04 Al

Cct 5 - Garage Door
This will be large metal industrial door contact
Scantronic configure 05 Al

Cct 6 - Panic Alarm
Standard 2 stage push down switch with keyswitch reset
Scantronic configure 06 Al

Cct 7 - Utility Room
PIR (if we enter via the rear Utility door, this sensor will be triggered, I may need more than 20 seconds to get to the keypad to disarm, so I increased my entry time to 60 seconds )
I think I would also need to configure this PIR as Final Exit
Scantronic configure 07 Al FE

Comments would be much appreciated

 

[Europlex]

Hi there, without going through every thing I'd like to point out that the proper way to design an alarm is with a door contact as your point of entry/exit to your property, Final Exit. PIRs in hallways should be programmed as Entry Route. PIRs in Lounge etc as Alarm.

Entering via the front or back door should operate as above, a door contact, starts the timer, which then allows the hall PIR to allow access to the controls/keypad to turn off the alarm.

If someone entered through a hall window bypassing the door contact the PIR will operate in exactly the same way as the one in the lounge, INSTANT alarm.

Get the idea?

DO NOT use a PIR as your first/last point of entry/exit - BAD practice.

Ramble a bit don't I!

 

[Europlex]

PS

As you have it, you will not be able to get in/out of your house without causing a full alarm condition. Look carefully at Ccts 1 & 2

 

[ThePobmyster]

Hi there, without going through every thing I'd like to point out that the proper way to design an alarm is with a door contact as your point of entry/exit to your property, Final Exit. PIRs in hallways should be programmed as Entry Route. PIRs in Lounge etc as Alarm.

Entering via the front or back door should operate as above, a door contact, starts the timer, which then allows the hall PIR to allow access to the controls/keypad to turn off the alarm.

If someone entered through a hall window bypassing the door contact the PIR will operate in exactly the same way as the one in the lounge, INSTANT alarm.

Get the idea?

DO NOT use a PIR as your first/last point of entry/exit - BAD practice.

Ramble a bit don't I!

Ok, I think I understand.

1.Out of interest what makes using a PIR as opposed to a door contact bad practice In one possible scenario, if I removed my Door contact, should I open the front door the PIR would break its contact. I would then have xx seconds to get to my keypad to enter my user ID. Im Just interested in the reason

2. Because my door contact will be my first alarm to break on entry, the hallway PIR (which will be a close second) should be set as ENTRY ROUTE and not FINAL EXIT. Could you offer an explanation as to the charateristic of these two settings. How does their functionality differ

3. Does an entry/exit door contact have to be configured different to any other contact. i.e is there a setting "I am an entry/exit contact" or is it always Cct 1 or do I have to nominate a cct

Appreciate your input again

 

[ThePobmyster]

The FINAL ENTRY and FINAl EXIT are going to be these settings I would assume

If I plan on entering and exiting the house via the front door, would I set the door contact Cct to both FINAL ENTRY and FINAL EXIT

If I plan on using the rear door as a entry point it would be FINAL ENTRY only

Have I now grasped it correctly ??

(My original interpretation of comments was that FINAL ENTRY and FINAL EXIT were only applicable to PIRs)

So my configuration would now look like this

Cct 1- Front Door
This will be a door contact
Scantronic configure 01 Al FE ER (Final Exit and Entry Route)

Cct 2 - Hall Way
This will be a PIR (will be triggered when I open front door/after door contact starts the timer)
Scantronic configure 02 Al

Cct 3 - Living Room
This will be a PIR
Scantronic configure 03 Al

Cct 4 - Garage door/Kitchen
This will be door contact
Scantronic configure 04 Al

Cct 5 - Garage Door
This will be large metal industrial door contact
Scantronic configure 05 Al

Cct 6 - Panic Alarm
Standard 2 stage push down switch with keyswitch reset
Scantronic configure 06 Al

Cct 7 - Utility Room
PIR (if we enter via the rear Utility door, this sensor will be triggered, I may need more than 20 seconds to get to the keypad to disarm, so I increased my entry time to 60 seconds )
I think I would also need to configure this PIR as Entry Route
Scantronic configure 07 Al ER (Entry Route)

 

[Europlex]

The FINAL ENTRY and FINAl EXIT are going to be these settings I would assume

If I plan on entering and exiting the house via the front door, would I set the door contact Cct to both FINAL ENTRY and FINAL EXIT

If I plan on using the rear door as a entry point it would be FINAL ENTRY only

Have I now grasped it correctly ??

(My original interpretation of comments was that FINAL ENTRY and FINAL EXIT were only applicable to PIRs)

So my configuration would now look like this

Cct 1- Front Door
This will be a door contact
Scantronic configure 01 Al FE ER (Final Exit and Entry Route)

Cct 2 - Hall Way
This will be a PIR (will be triggered when I open front door/after door contact starts the timer)
Scantronic configure 02 Al

Cct 3 - Living Room
This will be a PIR
Scantronic configure 03 Al

Cct 4 - Garage door/Kitchen
This will be door contact
Scantronic configure 04 Al

Cct 5 - Garage Door
This will be large metal industrial door contact
Scantronic configure 05 Al

Cct 6 - Panic Alarm
Standard 2 stage push down switch with keyswitch reset
Scantronic configure 06 Al

Cct 7 - Utility Room
PIR (if we enter via the rear Utility door, this sensor will be triggered, I may need more than 20 seconds to get to the keypad to disarm, so I increased my entry time to 60 seconds )
I think I would also need to configure this PIR as Entry Route
Scantronic configure 07 Al ER (Entry Route)

You really need to read and understand the manual and how alarm systems work. You do have the Installation manual?

Some of yours above adjusted >

My configure as numbers 5, 6, 3 & 1 are the correct Cct configuration types taken from the Manual.

Cct 1- Front Door
This will be a door contact
Scantronic configure as 5 FE (Final Exit)

Cct 2 - Hall Way
This will be a PIR (will be triggered when I open front door/after door contact starts the timer)
Scantronic configure as 6 ER (Entry Route)

Cct 3 - Living Room
This will be a PIR
Scantronic configure as 3 Al (Normal Alarm)

Cct 6 - Panic Alarm
Standard 2 stage push down switch with keyswitch reset
Scantronic configure as 1 PA (Panic Alarm)

You do have the Installation manual?

If you don't have the manual I strongly suggest you track one down, for the 9800 NOT the 9800+.

 

[ThePobmyster]

The FINAL ENTRY and FINAl EXIT are going to be these settings I would assume

If I plan on entering and exiting the house via the front door, would I set the door contact Cct to both FINAL ENTRY and FINAL EXIT

If I plan on using the rear door as a entry point it would be FINAL ENTRY only

Have I now grasped it correctly ??

(My original interpretation of comments was that FINAL ENTRY and FINAL EXIT were only applicable to PIRs)

So my configuration would now look like this

Cct 1- Front Door
This will be a door contact
Scantronic configure 01 Al FE ER (Final Exit and Entry Route)

Cct 2 - Hall Way
This will be a PIR (will be triggered when I open front door/after door contact starts the timer)
Scantronic configure 02 Al

Cct 3 - Living Room
This will be a PIR
Scantronic configure 03 Al

Cct 4 - Garage door/Kitchen
This will be door contact
Scantronic configure 04 Al

Cct 5 - Garage Door
This will be large metal industrial door contact
Scantronic configure 05 Al

Cct 6 - Panic Alarm
Standard 2 stage push down switch with keyswitch reset
Scantronic configure 06 Al

Cct 7 - Utility Room
PIR (if we enter via the rear Utility door, this sensor will be triggered, I may need more than 20 seconds to get to the keypad to disarm, so I increased my entry time to 60 seconds )
I think I would also need to configure this PIR as Entry Route
Scantronic configure 07 Al ER (Entry Route)

You really need to read and understand the manual and how alarm systems work. You do have the Installation manual?

Some of yours above adjusted >

My configure as numbers 5, 6, 3 & 1 are the correct Cct configuration types taken from the Manual.

Cct 1- Front Door
This will be a door contact
Scantronic configure as 5 FE (Final Exit)

Cct 2 - Hall Way
This will be a PIR (will be triggered when I open front door/after door contact starts the timer)
Scantronic configure as 6 ER (Entry Route)

Cct 3 - Living Room
This will be a PIR
Scantronic configure as 3 Al (Normal Alarm)

Cct 6 - Panic Alarm
Standard 2 stage push down switch with keyswitch reset
Scantronic configure as 1 PA (Panic Alarm)

You do have the Installation manual?

If you don't have the manual I strongly suggest you track one down, for the 9800 NOT the 9800+.

Thanks again for your response and your advice.

I have a PDf copy of the 9800 Installation and User Guide and I think it is a good document for offering technical specification of its hardware but it fails as a good guide for programming. It guides you "robot like" through the process of programming but fails to explain the charactheristic of each state. Why do they not include some alarm scenarios, diagrams and examples???

Maybe, with all your experience, you are no longer able to see the document from a novices perspective

Anyway, thanks for all your comment(s)

 

[Europlex]

Fair enough, you as I said, are not understanding it or what has been said by both myself and josh451.

The 9800 is a Pro panel with Pro type instructions using the terminology of the alarm trade.

You've got to get your head around it all or you are going to have problems.

PS
I suggest you find one of the Pro alarm Forums and ask there, you will find the replies a bit more ........ after all we do know what we're talking about.

Not necessarily directed at yourself, but I don't understand why people come to Forums, ask questions, get the help and then don't follow it. It happens so many times.

But as the shop owner always says, 'the customer is always right' - not.

 

[Alarm]

Go to the "pro" Forums please.
See how far you get with us, yes us............some of the ones who assist here.

If you cannot understand the manual you say you have nor the explanations given you need to get someone who can.

We can only try and guide.