Selling house - but consumer unit certificate missing. Illegal install?

[ericmark]

As seller and buyer I provided and received installation certificates, on getting the one for this house, I did comment that the readings seemed wrong for a house of this size, and it turned out if was only for the flat, the main house had no paperwork coving it.

The basic point is you pass over what you have, before 2004 you did not need completion or compliance certificates, and the new colours don't really show date of work, you can't get an installation certificate from anyone but the person who installed it. But the blanks are a free down load from IET website, and I know having made out so many correctly, I could easy fudge some results, so they are not really that important, if you did find the guy who did it, he would likely fudge up some results, so why worry.

 

[cdbe]

In my opinion, in the current market, you would be well advised to shell out £150 for an EICR rather than trying to argue the toss.

This time last year, with buyers queuing up, I'd be right up there with the gung-ho, take it or leave it stance, but not now.

Obviously the EICR is not what you're missing and the buyers solicitors will still likely require an indemnity policy, but it should satisfy most buyers - explain the situation on the questionnaire "mix up with the paperwork" and that the EICR confirms that the installation is "safe and compliant", even point them to the section on the report where it states "Satisfactory" (which hopefully it does!). Solicitors are not experts and just want boxes ticked, buyers are not experts and just want reassurance provided by solicitors saying they've ticked the box.

 

[ericmark]

I can see @cdbe point, however I could write out an EICR, it does not require me to be a scheme member, and often even when electricians are scheme members the EICR is not covered by the scheme, as long as I don't lie, I can write out a glowing report. Any bad bits I can enter as LIM, and of course the reverse is also often true.

The report can nit pick, missing grommet on a socket back box, where the cable is held firm by the plaster, and no way could it chafe on the metal. We have seen on these pages where an EICR has loads of C2 reports which seem to be going really OTT and often don't even deserve a mention.

A google for "Penbrooke EICR court case" will bring up the reports where an electrician admitted he did not take due diligence in compiling the report, however had he pleaded not guilty, there may have well been a different result.

It is not like a car MOT where inspectors are regularly inspected themselves, it is simply a report by a professional to voice their opinion. And often unfortunately use it to gain extra work. And in the case of the buyer, to try and knock down the price.

 

[aesmith]

So in England do buyers routinely ask for paperwork for every part of the electrical installation before making an offer, or as a condition? Or is it a legal requirement to provide it?

My experience (in Scotland) is that they don't. I was once asked for an Envirosearch report, which we provided. And once asked for us to pay for indemnity insurance for the water supply wayleave, which we declined. I would imagine asking for electrical paperwork would be the same, we could provide it, or we could decline and the buyer would decide whether that's sufficient reason to withdraw from the sale.

In this case, putting yourselves in the buyer's shoes, how many would withdraw from the sale, or not offer in the first place, for this reason?

 

[pcaouolte]

In England the paperwork for the electrical installation doesn't usually get questioned until solicitors are dealing with the conveyancing, so at this point the buyer has spent some money.

The solicitor will send a standard questionnaire to the seller asking about which items are included in the sale. That questionnaire has a couple of questions about the electrical installation: Have any alterations been done to the electrical system since (a date)? Can you provide certificates for the electrical work?

Because the buyer has already spent some money they are less likely to pull out for missing electrical certificates than they might be if it was mentioned when they first viewed the property.

There is no legal obligation to provide paperwork that you don't possess.

The buyer can request (and pay for) surveys, including electrical condition reports, if they wish.

Providing a certificate for electrical work that was completed is no guarantee that any, or all, of the electrical installation is safe.

 

[winston1]

So in England do buyers routinely ask for paperwork for every part of the electrical installation before making an offer, or as a condition?

Occasionally, but they should be told it is customary for the buyers to get any survey they want including electrical.

Or is it a legal requirement to provide it?

No.

My experience (in Scotland) is that they don't. I was once asked for an Envirosearch report, which we provided. And once asked for us to pay for indemnity insurance for the water supply wayleave, which we declined. I would imagine asking for electrical paperwork would be the same, we could provide it, or we could decline and the buyer would decide whether that's sufficient reason to withdraw from the sale.

In this case, putting yourselves in the buyer's shoes, how many would withdraw from the sale, or not offer in the first place, for this reason?

 

[flameport]

So in England do buyers routinely ask for paperwork for every part of the electrical installation before making an offer

Buyers don't. Their legal representatives usually will.
Most of the time the electrical documents are missing or never existed in the first place.
Even when some can be found, they are often next to useless due to being filled with errors, fictional information or not stating what work they refer to.

In the tiny number of cases where actual proper documents do exist, the buyer usually has no idea what they actually say or mean, such as a large property some years back where the new owners had a PIR (now called EICR) for the installation done prior to purchase which among the entire page of listed defects were such things as the wiring was deteriorating rubber from 60+ years ago, there was no CPC to any of the lighting circuits all of which had metal switches and lights, damaged socket outlets and a new kitchen which had recently been installed with the 'electrician' who did it attaching short lengths of new cable to the old. Test results were so far off of what was required there was no option other than a complete rewire. The fusebox was an ancient 12 way Wylex piece with rewireable fuses.

They wanted a quote for a new consumer unit, as that was the only thing on display that looked old. They either hadn't read the report, did not understand it, or chose not to act upon what it said.