Semi House Party Wall - Loft conversion

[wessex101]

A few people have now told OP that as an adjoining owner they have the same legal rights with or without the Party Wall Act however they left out one important detail.

If the OP can get the work included in a Party Wall Award it should not cost them a penny as the person undertaking the work, quite rightly, should pay for the surveyor. If they choose not to pursue the neighbour to instigate the Party Wall Act and say the neighbour punches the steel beams right through the party wall into the OP's loft (yes we have had posts on here where that has happened) then it is up to the OP to pay for their own legal representation and probably court costs etc. with no guarantee they will be reimbursed.

As an adjoining owner its a no brainer really, if the neighbour wont do the job properly then approach a party wall surveyor yourself. A well worded letter to the neighbour from the surveyor pointing out the folly of continuing the work without a party wall award and the huge costs if they try to proceed and the likely serving of an injunction usually does the trick.

 

[^woody^]

with no guarantee they will be reimbursed.

There is every guarantee with the scenario you describe. And it wil be covered by the home insurance too.

 

[wessex101]

There is every guarantee with the scenario you describe. And it wil be covered by the home insurance too.

That is good to know, I'm in court tomorrow so I am quite relieved that I am guaranteed to recover my costs from the other party. Meanwhile in the real world, I suspect it will be a case of instructing bailiffs or going to the High Court for enforcement and even then I am not confident of actually getting any cash.

 

[Nakajo]

So no difference then. The caveat, as exemplified by Roadrunner Properties v Dean 2003, is that it's actually in the developer's interest to enact the PWA.

 

[^woody^]

That is good to know, I'm in court tomorrow so I am quite relieved that I am guaranteed to recover my costs from the other party.

Are you in court for someone bashing a big hole through your side of a party wall, inserting a beam onto your side of the party wall, and causing damage to your wall structure and surface and other actual damage within the loft area?

If so, I will guarantee that you will be successful and can recover costs along with your damages.

 

[wessex101]

I do not doubt that the judgement will be successful but enforcing that judgement is a different story.

I fail to see why some here continue to give people this advice when they is a perfectly good free statutory procedure in place designed to protect people in this situation. I am obviously very dull in that I like to follow nice easy boring free statutory protection. All that excitement and uncertainty of instructing surveyors and solicitors waiting months and then the thrill of going to court, and then maybe if the defendant has any assets the bailiffs might get back the thousands of pounds you have paid out. Far too exciting and interesting for an old dullard like me.

 

[^woody^]

I fail to see why some here continue to give people this advice when they is a perfectly good free statutory procedure in place designed to protect people in this situation.

And just how do you enforce a PW Award?

And there is no certainty of success either, btw.

 

[chappers]

I do not doubt that the judgement will be successful but enforcing that judgement is a different story.

I fail to see why some here continue to give people this advice when they is a perfectly good free statutory procedure in place designed to protect people in this situation. I am obviously very dull in that I like to follow nice easy boring free statutory protection. .

But the point you are missing is that only the person carrying out the works can invoke the PWA.
You can shout all you like send letters from your solicitor, instruct a PW surveyor to write to them, threaten their kids and family with a visit from big Ron, all at your own expense, anything you want, but you can't force them to engage in a PWA, the best you can do , again at your own expense, is get an injunction to stop the works.
There is also no penalty in law for them not invoking the PWA and unless they have caused damage to your property there is nothing you can claim from them, even if they have caused damage the process for redress is exactly the same whether there is a PWA agreement in place or not. A PWA agreement would only stand as a piece of evidence in any claim

 

[wessex101]

But the point you are missing is that only the person carrying out the works can invoke the PWA.
You can shout all you like send letters from your solicitor, instruct a PW surveyor to write to them, threaten their kids and family with a visit from big Ron, all at your own expense, anything you want, but you can't force them to engage in a PWA, the best you can do , again at your own expense, is get an injunction to stop the works.
There is also no penalty in law for them not invoking the PWA and unless they have caused damage to your property there is nothing you can claim from them, even if they have caused damage the process for redress is exactly the same whether there is a PWA agreement in place or not. A PWA agreement would only stand as a piece of evidence in any claim

Read my previous post I explained that. No building owner in their right mind will proceed without serving notice once they realise the neighbour is on to them and has a party wall surveyor lined up ready to drag them through the courts as soon as they pick up a hammer. It never comes to an injunction, I think I have read about 1 case in London that involved an injunction and I have spoken to surveyors who specialise in party wall work and they have never been involved in an injunction. I would qualify that by saying I would only apply that to actual works on the party wall, I am not happy with the Section 6 and the 3 metre rule and would like to see that amended so that only the 45 degree rule only applied

This is the trouble, the Party Wall Act is widely misunderstood. It is not intended to be a blunt instrument to bludgeon neighbours into submission. It is a process which intends to guide neighbours through an amicable and harmonious arrangement whereby damage and disputes are avoided. Ideally the neighbours can do this themselves for free just by following the free Government guidance, but if necessary an independent third party can be appointed to help them through the project. Part of the problem is due to the fact that the legislation specifically allows anyone to act as a party wall surveyor so over recent years all sorts of rogues and chancers have sprung up who actively abuse the process to line their own pockets.

The only times I have seen the process go wrong is where there is an ongoing acrimonious dispute between neighbours and they try to use the PWA as an expensive stick to hit their neighbour with or they employ an incompetent or dishonest "surveyor," usually all three together.

As for your final point about the redress for damage being the same whether PWA was invoked or not simply isn't true. If damage does occur with a PW award in place the surveyor or surveyors will address this and will instruct the building owner to either undertake remedial works or make financial recompense, again all at no cost to the adjoining owner. That is why it is so important that the party wall surveyor is independent as they have legal responsibility to act as an independent arbitrator between the 2 or more parties. It is extremely rare for a project with a party wall award to end up in court and if it does it is usually due to an ongoing neighbour dispute. There seem to be a lot regarding these mega basement extensions in London but they are more about the rich neighbours just trying to stop the work rather than actual party wall related matters.

 

[chappers]

As for your final point about the redress for damage being the same whether PWA was invoked or not simply isn't true. If damage does occur with a PW award in place the surveyor or surveyors will address this and will instruct the building owner to either undertake remedial works or make financial recompense, again all at no cost to the adjoining owner. That is why it is so important that the party wall surveyor is independent as they have legal responsibility to act as an independent arbitrator between the 2 or more parties.

But they can't instruct they can only advise, they may themselves have legal responsibilities, but they have no legal powers to force a developer to fix or make financial recompense
the legal powers of the act only go as far as facilitating the works to go ahead.
The redress IS exactly the same in law regardless of whether the act has been invoked or not, the legal requirement on the developer not to cause damage to the neighbouring property doesn't change just because there is a PWA agreement in place.

 

[Nakajo]

(well Roadrunner v Dean offers a slightly different complexion on that point) beep beep

 

[chappers]

If I remember correctly though RR v Dean just says that as there was no PWA agreement, then the defendants evidence doesn't carry much weight.

 

[Nakajo]

It's stronger than that. If a claim for damage corresponds with the kind of thing you'd expect from work to a party wall then it's for the defendant to prove that their work did not in fact cause that damage; a tremendously difficult task.