Setting up a wood store

[Doggit]

Couldn't read it; don't like being forced to log in to something.

I know the reasoning behind what they are trying to say, but isn't that why they brought in the Defra rules for stoves. It makes them run hotter, and burns up more of the pollutants and the ash. Is this just another biased article though. The current argument against diesel cars has no real science behind it. It was an analysis done but MIT 10 years ago, but is being taken as definitive science. The uproar about the UK having exceeded the permitted Nox levels, only relates to a small number of locations, and no one actually knows how many deaths are down to the ubiquitous 2.5 ash particles.

 

[d000hg]

JohnD is right, You want your firewood as dry as you can get it, the sugar in sap doesn't evaporate, and you'd never put water in your woodburner to make it burn better.

I wasn't talking about water. But there are many organic compounds in wood and I'd heard some break down which makes the wood less good for burning

 

[StephenStephen]

Hmmm, if it's too wet then the organic compounds will be broken down by various organisms, but I've never heard of anyone having any kind of issues with firewood breaking down by being too dry

 

[Doggit]

I have, try cutting and splitting it when you've left it to dry out.

 

[StephenStephen]

I have, try cutting and splitting it when you've left it to dry out.

That's not an issue with firewood breaking down (organically) - that's an issue with firewood not breaking down mechanically.
One of the reasons for chopping wood before you stack it is in order for it to dry out quicker, and for it to reach a lower final moisture content

 

[Doggit]

So, when did you have the sense of humour bypass. I was too busy to cut and stack the logs. I won't make that mistake again -well hopefully I won't.

I don't honestly think there is an issue with leaving wood to dry out too much.

 

[StephenStephen]

So, when did you have the sense of humour bypass. I was too busy to cut and stack the logs. I won't make that mistake again -well hopefully I won't.

I don't honestly think there is an issue with leaving wood to dry out too much.

The sense of humour bypass arrived a couple of years ago when a tree surgeon told me to leave the eucalyptus logs to dry before splitting them, as it would crack up itself in the process of drying out! I'm thinking of selling them to a local engineering works as an alternative to titanium, or selling the grain designs to an encryption company. It chuckles quietly in the face of a 4 ton mechanical splitter, and is relatively untroubled by multiple wedges...

 

[EddieM]

Couldn't read it; don't like being forced to log in to something.
I know the reasoning behind what they are trying to say

Without wishing to sound like a smart arse, those are 2 mutually exclusive statements.

It makes them run hotter, and burns up more of the pollutants and the ash.

Does it? The article, if believed, indicates not so.

Is this just another biased article though.

Always a possibility, but the new scientist is generally, but not universally respected.

The current argument against diesel cars has no real science behind it. It was an analysis done but MIT 10 years ago, but is being taken as definitive science.

Well, I suppose that may be true, is there any evidence to back that statement up and refute the MIT evidence ?

The uproar about the UK having exceeded the permitted Nox levels, only relates to a small number of locations, and no one actually knows how many deaths are down to the ubiquitous 2.5 ash particles.

Possibly, but those locations encompass a good proportion of the UK population.

 

[Doggit]

Well, I suppose that may be true, is there any evidence to back that statement up and refute the MIT evidence ?

I'll try and track through the article for you, but the essence of it, was that as there are no autopsies of anyone to determine what caused a respiratory death, there was a computer model created by MIT that assumed what could have caused the deaths, not what actually did.

Possibly, but those locations encompass a good proportion of the UK population.[/QUOTE

Actually, they don't, that's just the press talking. If you go to the defra website, most PM10 and Nox levels are okay, and it's only a few locations that exceed the EU levels (which I agree they shouldn't at all), but if instead of having traffic calming measure that force cars to go slow, and often stay still, then that'll increase the levels unnecessarily.

It's all very good to have cars going at 20mph to reduce any potential traffic accidents, then they'll invariably be in 3rd gear and putting out more pollutants than necessary.

So what really causes the problems - that may, or may not, exist.

 

[John D v2.0]

I'll try and track through the article for you, but the essence of it, was that as there are no autopsies of anyone to determine what caused a respiratory death, there was a computer model created by MIT that assumed what could have caused the deaths, not what actually did.

Things like that are always done statistically because it's too difficult to do randomised controlled trials. So you end up with more about a correlation then a causation.
However if you look at smoking, that's eventually been proved to be harmful, mobile phone radiation, not so much.
And what kind of diet, low fat or low carbohydrate, the scientific consensus seems to be changing recently.
Nothing is ever proven in science, it's all based on evidence of various qualities. But it's the best we can do at the moment, desptie a lot of funding and a lot of research into it. It's certainly not just an isolated study, the studies are trying to work out exactly how bad each pollutant is, not whether they're bad.
Hopefully we won't go back to the great smog in the 50s, but everyone deserves clean air!
Sorry that sounded a bit more rant than I intended, it's not meant to be!

 

[Doggit]

Sorry that sounded a bit more rant than I intended, it's not meant to be

Not a rant at all John, very sensible comments. My concern, is that because there are no autopsies on people who have died from respiratory causes, there's no factual evidence of what actually caused those deaths that they are now attirbuting to diesel fumes, especially as the current rants are based on a 10 year old study, yet the Euro 5 Emissions standard came in to effect in 2009, and the Euro 6 standard in 2012, so how valid is that 10 year old study that has no actual evidence to base it's assumptions on.

Nothing is ever proven in science, it's all based on evidence of various qualities

Exactly, so why do so many people just jump on the band wagon, and then say it's been proved without a shadow of a doubt; not one stops to think any more.

Just 15 container ships emit as much CO2 (and therefore even more pollutants as they're older) as all the cars in the world, but that fact will get ignored.

Do we need to demonise diesel cars, or do we just need to make sure all cars have stop start technology, and to ban drivers from sitting with their engines running. We need to mandate that councils can't try and deter car users by extending trafic light times etc, and to cut out bus lanes that force the trafic to slow down. And we desperately need independant car emmision tests, not ones done by the manufacturers where they take out everything they can, and then get the results as favourable as possible.

I agree with you completely and utterly that everyone deserves clean air, because I'm part of that everyone as well, but it needs a mich bigger picture approach than we've currently got going, believe me.

 

[John D v2.0]

Interesting stuff, yeah I would like to see better research on all this, but my only comment on your post would be that remember co2 is a global warming pollutant whereas no2 and pm2.5 etc are local pollutants having a direct effect on people but not causing global warming. So ships can cause much particulates as they like, but need to produce less co2 if possible. But in cities it's not complicated, even if electric cars create more pollutants if they aren't spread around the city it's a lot better.
Anyway as long as life expectancy is going up I suppose it's all good! Although you can have fun with this http://visual.ons.gov.uk/how-long-will-my-pension-need-to-last/

 

[Doggit]

Good point John, but it's all interlinked. If 15 diesel powered container ships produce more Co2 than all the cars in the world, then trying to cut down diesel car use is no use whatsoever, as you still get windborne pollutants as well as locally produced ones; and whilst Nox levels are rising above the permitted levels in a small number of places in each city, if we push everyone to swap back to petrol cars (as electric ones are still too expensive), the CO2 levels get pushed back up, and people die from petrol related emmisions, whch everyone seems to forget about. We really do need an honest debate on this one, but I can guarantee we won't get one.

And as the life expectancy calculator only asked my age and sex, I reckon it's pretty limited. The war generation were the fittest having a reduced sugar and fat diet, but I reckon that we won't last as long, and with the current care crisis, we'll (at some point in the future) be allowed to die off rather than sit ga ga in care homes that we can't afford.

Now I'll stop the rant. Right, anyone got any more comments on the wood store.

 

[RigidRaider]

Back to the log store... the north side of the house isn't the best location because it will be cool and damp. Far better to build your log store on the south side where it will benefit from occasional sunshine, which will generally warm the immediate environment. If that happens to be a breezy area where the prevailing westerlies blow through between your house and your neighbour's house, even better. Our is in such a location and the wood dries very effectively; it's stacked on old pallets against the house wall with a lean-to roof over it. Any that gets wet in driving rain soon dries in the westerly breeze that goes through the gap.

 

[foxhole]

This seems to be an argument which wooden go away ?
Stove manufacturers recommend storing timber two years prior to use so a large area is needed.
Personally I just chop up pallet timber , free, easy to come by and already dry so I don't store more than a weeks worth.
Currently have Indian hardwood pallets chopped and ready ( from my Indian stone delivery for back garden).