Settle an Argument Please

yes sorry for the confusion :whistle: .... indeed a very small amount thats sort off the point of turning something on and off every day to save a pound or two a year is not worth the effort ... indeed iff someone offered you a pound to get on your hands and knees and plug and unplug a tv 365 times you would laugh at the stupidity :eek:
Quite =- and, as I keep saying, if that repeated plugging and unplugging resulted in a reduction of the lifespan of the TV (which is not impossible), the financial implications could be very substantial!

Kind Regards, John
 
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Indeed.

Raising the temp of 'half a litre' of water by 85 °C (15 °C to 100 °C) uses about 0.05 kWh of energy, which equates to about 1.35p at 27p/kWh. In itself, that's obviously trivial, but for those who like such multiplication sums, doing that 5 times a day for 365 days would add up to about £24.63 per year.
Wouldn't it be cheaper (for those with a gas hob) to boil a small lidded pan of water?
 
Wouldn't it be cheaper (for those with a gas hob) to boil a small lidded pan of water?
So long as gas remains cheaper than electricity, it will obviously be ('everything else being equal') cheaper to boil a given volume of water with gas than to boil the same volume of water with electricity.

I suspect that there will be somewhat more heat/energy loss/'wastage' (although it will heat the room) with a gas hob than an electric kettle - since the water is being very 'directly' heated in an electric kettle, but that's probably not a major consideration.
'
Kind Regards, John
 
My kettle glows blue when heating, bit daft as when you want the light is when filling to see level, I find it hard to tell if empty or over full, half full can see water line.

I've had some with a sight glass on the side, which soon choke up with limescale. Latest is an all glass kettle, apart from the base, which makes it easy to see the level. Rather wastefully, it has LED mounted in the base, which is always on - blue when it has clicked off, red when heating up.
 
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So long as gas remains cheaper than electricity, it will obviously be ('everything else being equal') cheaper to boil a given volume of water with gas than to boil the same volume of water with electricity.
Not so sure, daughter boiled water in kettle and then poured it into the pan, and I asked why, gas hob around 5.5 kW and kettle 2.8 kW so she did a demo filled kettle to full mark, poured into pan, refilled to full mark and set both to boil at the same time, and the kettle boiled in around half the time for gas even when kettle was around half the size of gas ring.

I was surprised at the result, so when I got home repeated the experiment with an induction hob and kettle, 3 kW for hob and again 2.8 kW for kettle, the kettle won, but only by a very small margin, near enough same time.

In both case the lids were on the pan.

So since it takes around 4 times the gas to do same work as electric, plus it heats the kitchen more, and puts moisture in the kitchen, so need to run a cooker hob to remove heat and moisture. Even when gas is much cheaper to cook with gas likely around the same cost.

However for a gas central heating boiler (heater as we hope it does not boil) with the combustion air taken from outside, and the combustion gases exhausted to outside, it must be many times cheaper to heat home with gas than electric, as to oil with price raises not sure any more, it was cheaper to heat with oil to gas, but this may no longer be true.

My wife many years ago early 80's looked at gas cookers, she was looking at a Cannon with a built in microwave, around £1000 and this was in the 80's, however she looked at the fingers holding the pans, and decided it was too easy for our small children to reach up for a pan and cause it to topple off the cooker, I sighed a sigh of relief when she went for a ceramic hob cooker instead at ¼ the price, it has since been replaced with an induction version, and the safety features means no way would I use a gas hob on a cooker today, and as far as oven goes electric has more control, not sure if any point in the extra control, closed door grilling is good, but Mrs Beeton's has clearly been re-written, as no instructions as to how to set dampers with solid fuel cooker, which would have heated oven from bottom, side, top depending on settings, and it has a reference to gas marks and gas cooking was not invented until after Mrs Beeton. So oven has all the fancy controls, but I don't know how to use them.

Today the idea of cooking on gas and getting the gas bottles to power it does not seem a reasonable option, I know you can get oil fired ranges, but I think electric is best option when no town gas on tap.
 
there is so much heat lost to boiling water on a cooker, all external surfaces radiating heat except the base with a flame licking up the side perhaps 1/2 to 2/3rd energy not reaching and staying within the water where as an electric plastic kettle perhaps 90-95% dispersed to the water before radiating out
a twin walled/insulated kettle may be a worth while thing in the future
 
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Not so sure, daughter boiled water in kettle and then poured it into the pan, and I asked why, gas hob around 5.5 kW and kettle 2.8 kW so she did a demo filled kettle to full mark, poured into pan, refilled to full mark and set both to boil at the same time, and the kettle boiled in around half the time for gas even when kettle was around half the size of gas ring.
Fair enough - but although you quoted the first part of what I wrote, you did not quote what followed, namely...
... I suspect that there will be somewhat more heat/energy loss/'wastage' (although it will heat the room) with a gas hob than an electric kettle - since the water is being very 'directly' heated in an electric kettle, but that's probably not a major consideration.
... but maybe it's more of a "major consideration" than I thought.

However, I wonder how correct your figures are. A "2.8 kW kettle" is straightforward enough - it will use something very close to 2.8 kW at whatever voltage that relates to (usually 240V). However, I'm far less sure about a "5.5 kW gas hob" - apart from anything else, the rate of gas flow, hence 'power' when it burns, will be crucially related to the prevailing gas pressure.

Kind Regards, John
 
However, I wonder how correct your figures are.
I would agree it is not accurate, however it was so much longer to boil it clearly was using more energy, but as to cost not so easy to work out.

I wrote to energy saving trust some years ago when the so called energy saving bulb was first being promoted, and asked about if they saved energy in the home. My point was with tungsten bulbs I would set the room thermostat at 18°C all day long, however with energy saving bulbs I lost the inferred heat from the bulbs, so now in the evening I set room thermostat to 20°C which means I need a programmable thermostat.

The home does not cool very fast, so although the thermostat over night is set to 16°C it is rare for it to drop that low, so we are looking at the house being 2°C hotter for around 12 hours due to fitting energy saving bulbs, so loses must be greater.

They said tests had not been made to allow for inferred heating from bulbs supplementing the back ground air temperature, and also although it may save energy using tungsten bulbs, it would only save money if the home is electrical heated, and it would depend on how many tungsten bulbs are used, and if they are also used when central heating not active.

This use of heat for other than originally intended I noted last weekend, when we had a BBQ and were using a hostess trolley to keep food warm, the kitchen ended up being a magnet for the guests as the trolley was keeping the kitchen warmer, and since the central heating thermostat for that part of the house was in the kitchen, it resulted in other rooms being cooler.

I call it "near enough engineering" to get central heating perfect would cost a fortune, my programmable TRV heads do control each room independently to an extent, but rooms do under and over heat, the TRV only works while boiler is running, they are not wireless linked.
 
I would agree it is not accurate, however it was so much longer to boil it clearly was using more energy, but as to cost not so easy to work out.
As I said/implied, it (gas) would be "clearly using more correctly' only if your figures are roughly right.

As I said, we can have a pretty good idea of how much energy is used by a "2.8 kW electric kettle" over a certain period of time, but I personally haven't got a clue as to how much energy would be used by a gas hob over any given period of time.

Kind Regards, John
 
As I said/implied, it (gas) would be "clearly using more correctly' only if your figures are roughly right.

As I said, we can have a pretty good idea of how much energy is used by a "2.8 kW electric kettle" over a certain period of time, but I personally haven't got a clue as to how much energy would be used by a gas hob over any given period of time.

Kind Regards, John
Other than reading the meter.. admittedly not very good resolution though... unless you have a smart meter:whistle:
 
Other than reading the meter.. admittedly not very good resolution though... unless you have a smart meter:whistle:
Not having piped gas, I've certainly never even seen a 'smart' gas meter, so I haven't a clue as to what sort of resolution they are capable of (do you know?), but I think that the resolution of non-'smart' ones I've seen over the years and decades would really be totally inadequate for the sort of purpose we're talking about.

Kind Regards, John
 
Indeed.

Raising the temp of 'half a litre' of water by 85 °C (15 °C to 100 °C) uses about 0.05 kWh of energy, which equates to about 1.35p at 27p/kWh. In itself, that's obviously trivial, but for those who like such multiplication sums, doing that 5 times a day for 365 days would add up to about £24.63 per year.

Kind Regards, John
I sometimes wonder why electric kettles are not made with well insulated sides and lid. If I boil the water and return half an hour later the water is nearly cold. It would be more energy efficient to keep water hot once it has been heated.
 
Really?

Boil it half an hour later.
I agree but sometimes life interferes. To be more exact I boil the kettle then my wife calls for me to help her get out of bed or to get dressed. There must be thousands of people like me who are looking after a disabled partner so frequently have to stop and help.
 
Not having piped gas, I've certainly never even seen a 'smart' gas meter, so I haven't a clue as to what sort of resolution they are capable of (do you know?), but I think that the resolution of non-'smart' ones I've seen over the years and decades would really be totally inadequate for the sort of purpose we're talking about.

Kind Regards, John
Based entirely on the resolution of a pre pay meter where it's possible to see usage to within one penny and therefore see the cost of, say, a shower via the combi boiler or the cost of boiling a saucepan of water.
 

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