Should a new window have this much build up frame buildup?

[Mmark]

I had my windows replaced, but they have padded out the frame a lot more and added a large trim. So I now have a lot less glass, and extra layers of frames. I'm going to speak to the company on Monday, but just wondering why they might do this or why it might be acceptable? just to make sure I'm not being unreasonable with them.

In the photos you can see the original, that one had only one opening side. In the other you can see there is a lot more build up in the lower part thus the appearance of a frame within a frame within a frame. Lastly I provide the window spec them sent me.

Mark

 

[Mr Chibs]

Looks like a nice window, but it does look like a frame within a frame.
I'm presuming it's not beading around the edge as it looks too thick.

Not sure I'd be 100% happy with this. Have you go a photo from the outside?

 

[crank39]

Its interesting to note the window details say its only a 20mm unit!

 

[Mmark]

I have attached some photos from the outside. Does that help?

Mark

 

[Mmark]

Its interesting to note the window details say its only a 20mm unit!

I just went with what ever spec they recommended there, its not something they mentioned to me. That would be the "4 Clear / 12 / 4 Clear Low E"? Tbh I had no idea what that actually meant. Hopefully 20mm will be fine. As it was clearly written in the spec, that's probably on me for not checking before agreeing the contract.

They were replacing existing single pane glass, I don't know if that makes any difference.

 

[Mmark]

Not sure I'd be 100% happy with this. Have you go a photo from the outside?

I have provided outside photos, does that help?

 

[mattylad]

To me (a non glazier/window fitter) it looks like they may have either made the window too small so made a larger frame for it to fit in.
OR
It may be that for some reason they needed to do it that way so it looks right/opens properly from the outside.

What did the fitters say when you asked them? I take it you are going to do so?

 

[Mmark]

What did the fitters say when you asked them? I take it you are going to do so?

Yes I'm asking them tomorrow, just looking for advice so I ask the right questions and don't accept poor answers.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

It's interesting if you walk along any typical street (with the same style of house) where they've had replacement windows. Some houses you'll see the replacement frames fill the cavity pretty well, however there's nearly always some houses where you can tell the frame could have been x cm's longer and in some cases wider.

This happened to us years back. The house had wooden frames that already looked like a frame within a frame. We decided to replace them, old, single glazed etc. When the salesman came to do rough measuring for the quote, he advised that one of their surveyors would visit to take accurate measurements should we go with them. Because we were gutting the house, I offered to take sections of the existing woodwork off where I could, thus enabling the surveyor to measure more accurately. 'No need' said the salesman, 'these guys are professionals, they know what they're doing.'

The end result when we got the new windows fitted were frames that could definitely have been a few cm's longer and I suspect a bit wider. They didn't look ridiculous, however when looking at next doors replacement windows, you could tell they were that bit longer.

This was proved a couple of years later when we needed to get a faulty window replaced. I asked them to remeasure which they reluctantly agreed to. Hey presto, the replacement window was a few cm's longer with no need for a filler strip along the bottom.

I'm not saying it's an exact science, however it's evident some are better at measuring than others.

 

[Diver Fred]

Your new Casement Window is made from timber, am I correct?

I'd expect the window reveal (the hole in the wall that the window fits in) to have been measured at the outside - the spec quote says the casement to fit in the reveal is 1190x1190mm square.
If I made the window I'd make it approximately 10-15mm smaller than the reveal. The cill I make out of 6x3" (the 6" wide,3" high), the uprights and head out of 4x2". The rabbit for the lights to go in would be 1/2" deep. The lights (that's the frames the glass is fitted in) would be made from 3x2" for the bottom rail and 2x2" for the sides and top.
The internal reveal should be 1" to 2" smaller than the external one.

Does that help?

 

[crank39]

Maybe the reveal is much thicker than we know, I can see that without the outermost frame then the trickle vents in the middle frame would be obstructed by the reveal

 

[Mmark]

Answering diy_fun. I had something similar. Our loft conversion had terrible french doors fitted - literally gaps you could sheets of paper through on the joints. Gaskets were twisted etc. loft conversion people refunded.

We had a different company come in to measure and fit replacement doors - very happy with the doors. Anyway there is a 2x2 block along the top, when they were measuring I said I’d like to remove that if it’s not needed - I said they could drill or excavate to find out. When the new one was fitted, it just went under the spacer - they hadn’t listened to me and played it safe. Anyway a few years later adding a window next to those doors. We fully excavate, nothing there. So the doors could have gone a little higher and not needed a big spacer. Annoyed with myself for not being proactive and insistent enough to remove it before measuring.

I typically find tradesmen will make choices to keep their lives simpler, especially if they are overlapping with work of another tradesmen.

 

[Mmark]

@diver I just measured the available opening, ie the rendered wall and timber shelf - 124x124. I don’t live there, so I didn’t follow up the measurements or ask at the time. So quite annoyed with myself

When I look outside I see maybe 15mm of sealant between the flashing and the cill (see added photos) - I doubt they disturbed or moved the flashing. So I guess that worst case I have 15mm extra build up.

Anyway I’ll see what they say, but likelyhood is I just need to accept this and move on. Atleast the windows are themselves good quality.

 

[Diver Fred]

@diver I just measured the available opening, ie the rendered wall and timber shelf - 124x124. I don’t live there, so I didn’t follow up the measurements or ask at the time. So quite annoyed with myself

Do I understand you that the 124(0) measurement is the internal width and height?
If so then the casement is something like 75 to 100mm undersized.

Is this a window in a dormer? If it is then window company has taken the easy way of fitting it.

 

[Mmark]

It is a dormer window.

I just spoke to a structural technician friend, he said the challenge with really older dormers like this is you can remove the outer frames and then hit a lot more problems, as you don’t know how it was fixed underneath. He says it is quite common, most people don’t want the additional expense or hassle. But that the suppliers should have talked me through these decisions. Either way it seems I didn’t ask and they didn’t mention it, so im stuck and just have to move on and chalk it up to another learning experience. But will still discuss it with them on Monday.

This is what he said:
“When I took out the old window frame there was nothing left (the timber window was face fixed to dormer cheeks (so not inside the frame) so I had to make another frame for the window to fit in. If I had kept the original frame and just did a insert like yours, it would have been a lot easier”

He noticed that actually if you look carefully in the old photo there is three frames too, just the other is slim so you hardly noticed it. In the new, you can see 15mm bead of silicon. So he thinks that old slim frame plus new, accounts for the extra build up, which makes it all more obvious.