Should i earth my house?

[ftastic1]

Hi All,

I am new here and wanted to ask some advice.

Our house is circa 1950's and hence has the old style Wylex breaker box with fuse wire in the breakers.

We bought some lovely new chrome style lights for an update, i managed to fit the walllights but not the ceiling light.

I called an electrician round as i could not sort it and also wanted to ask him about also replacing the consumer unit as i believe the old one to be a bit out of date.

He tells me that as the lights are metal (and not double insulated), they should be earthed, but as there is only a black and red cable (live and neutral in the wall/ceiling) i should get the house (or at least the living room earthed), does anyone know if that is necessary?

We are now concerned that if he fits an earth we will have to channel and ruin our plastered walls, is this a correct assumption?

Also, if he does earth the lounge so we can fit our new lights will we have trouble later if we want to fit a power shower (with no earth?)

Is this common in 50's style houses? and how much should i be paying to get this changed?

Any help appreciated, Andy

 

[Spark123]

Listen to your electrician, he is right in what he is telling you. Class 1 metal items are meant to be earthed. If you have no earth then you should not install class 1 items which means you can only install class 2 items (double insulated) which are mainly plastic.
It is not just a case of fitting an earth wire, it will be a case of replacing the existing cables with twin and earth. I doubt he will want to be just replacing odd lengths too.
Don't know about your power shower, if it is class 1 then it will need to be earthed. It is also not best practice to have a house or similar wired to only accept double insulated accessories.
Don't know about cost, can't see it - can't quote it. Ask around your friends for recommendations if you are not happy with the price your spark has quoted.

 

[FingRinal]

It is necessary.

If your installation is from the 1950's, it is coming to or is at the end of it's serviceable life. I suspect it will have had additions since it was built though - perhaps in the 60s and may be a mix of old and older.

It was common during the 50's to install conduit so it may well be possible to re-wire your switches without disturbing decoration. The lighting circuit will require the lifting of carpets and floor boards most likely. But a careful electrician will be able to do a reasonable job of putting things back as they were.

A Periodic Inspection Report may be worthwhile. It sounds like one is way over due as they should be carried out at a maximum of every 10 years.

For otherwise sound installations, 17th Edition Wiring Regs 410.3.9 (iii) may offer a way out for some unearthed switch drops.

In the meantime, it sounds as though you have the wrong kind of lights (Class 1) and you should either replace them all in the house with double insulated (Class II) light fittings or suffer the rewire.

As regards the power shower, you're not clear as to whether you have no means of earthing to the whole installation or whether you just have no earthing on your lighting circuits.

If you have no means of earthing to the whole installation, it needs to be addressed without delay.

 

[ftastic1]

Is it necessary also to replace the consumer unit?

 

[Spark123]

Does it have RCD protection for gnd floor sockets? Is it wooden? Before long the regs are calling for RCD protection for all normal sockets, all circuits in a bathroom and any unprotected concealled cables when installed in safe zones.
MCBs are better than rewirable fuses as they are not as open to abuse, are easy to reset etc.

 

[FingRinal]

There is no Reg which requires an installation to be brought up to current editions of the Wiring Regs.

Also, there is no Reg which requires RCD protection for 'ground floor' sockets - although this is how it is commonly interpreted, it is not necessarily the case. The new Regs may call for RCD protection for all socket-outlets but that does not mean all existing installations must be upgraded to comply. There are also exceptions permitted.

It doesn't really matter if the old Wylex board is mounted on a wooden back board. Although it may not be possible to prove that it complies with current regulations, it perhaps did at the time and I've yet to see one which was the cause of a fire. I've even tried to set fire to a few in the back garden without success. Even Approved Doc P is subjective on this matter in relation to sockets and switches.

 

[securespark]

Spark 123 was talking about replacing the CU and the possibility of rewiring was also mentioned.

If the OP had some rewiring work done, it would be madness not to replace the CU. If that CU/ wiring was replaced under the 17th, then one option would be to fit RCBO's to all circuits, especially if you could not satisfy cable protection regs by mechanical means.

The old 16th said something like, "sockets which could reasonably be expected to supply equipment for use outdoors" which many sparks interpret as being all sockets on ground floor. NOTE THE USE OF THE WORD "REASONABLE". By the same token, a 2nd (or higher) floor flat is deemed by many not to require RCD protection to sockets, at least not to satisfy that regulation.

Doesn't really matter if the CU is wooden?

I refer the dishonourable gentleman to my previous comment.

Have you really never seen a wooden-backed Wylex Standard board that has gone up in smoke?

You have led a very sheltered life...

 

[FingRinal]

Secure,

I wouldn't say sheltered, you either see these things or you don't. I reckon I've seen more melted all plastic modern CUs - but they are all the rage!

Smoke and flames are two different things to be fair. Well seasoned hardwood is hard to set alight.

I've seen quite a few wooden backed Wylex boards with char marks, but never one that has burst into flames. I've seen ones recovered from fire damaged properties which weren't the cause of the fire but which were (partially) consumed by the fire. But I've never come across one which had burst into flames. Now, when I say this, I refer only to original back boards fitted with the board and not modern softwood replacements (of which I've seen perhaps a couple). Now, that is not to say that it has never happened and that you haven't had experience of this.

One thing I am against, is electricians turning up at people's homes and panicking them into a full re-wire for no good reason. For a start, it may not be possible for the customer to pay up front for a re-wire but they can pay for urgent and important repairs/ugrades and undertake the rest in stages. In an ideal world, it would be great if all installations were re-wired every ten years or when BS7671 is revised (new edition) or whichever is the sooner.

The NICEIC in particular seems to peddle the myth that BS3036 boards are a hazard and must be replaced as soon as one of their members spots one. This quickly leads on to 'new board equals rewire love'. And people wonder why other people are wary of professional tradesmen.

No cpc in lighting circuits was the norm for years. But it hasn't been the norm for years. With the abundance of Class II fittings these days, there isn't really an excuse not to fit them. But would the public know about this?

Reasonable may mean 'able to supply portable equipment outside for its intended use without using an extension lead'. Once an extension lead is included, it would be 'reasonable' to expect any socket within the reach of the extension lead to supply portable equipment outdoors - even sockets on the 1st floor. As 50m extension leads are quite common, would this be deemed reasonable? Unless due consideration is given to the individual situation, it's usually best to adopt the 'all sockets' route.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Also, there is no Reg which requires RCD protection for 'ground floor' sockets - although this is how it is commonly interpreted, it is not necessarily the case. .

Ahem.....

You havent found out the characteristics of the supply. Maybe its TT.
Would you care to modify your statement re a regulation re RCD protection for sockets given a TT environment?

 

[FingRinal]

Yes, you are correct. Well spotted. I had assumed a typical TN installation.

Would you care to highlight the other poster's incorrect comment too?

 

[FingRinal]

On second thoughts - I said nothing wrong.

There is no Reg and what Regs there are, are commonly interpreted in 'that' way and is it not neccessarily the case. The TT case being a fine example!

But I agree with the 'spirit' of your interjection.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So how would you interpret 471-08-06?

 

[FingRinal]

With due care and consideration of the relevant electrcial installation.

 

[Spark123]

So, given the information in the OP, is there enough information to say he needs a new CU? Or would it be a good idea to ask a few questions before passing judgement.

 

[FingRinal]

So, given the information in the OP, is there enough information to say he needs a new CU? Or would it be a good idea to ask a few questions before passing judgement.

It is necessary to re-wire or make changes to those parts of the installation without cpc which supply Class I lights. Looking back, it reads as though my reply refers to the whole house and not just the lighting circuit so apologies if this caused confusion.

I never said anything about needing a new CU or definitely not needing one.

The recommended course of action, in my opinion, is to pay for a full Periodic Inspection Report and hope that the Inspector is a good one and that his or her report reflects the customer's best interests and is not used as a sales tool.