Should Maggie Thatcher get a State funeral.

[Trazor]

Quoted...

"Earlier this year the ship's captain, Hector Bonzo, admitted that the Belgrano's decision to sail away from the Task Force on the morning of 2 May was only a temporary manoeuvre.
"Our mission ... wasn't just to cruise around on patrol but to attack," Captain Bonzo said in a television interview in May. "When they gave us the authorisation to use our weapons, if necessary, we had to be prepared to attack. Our people were completely trained. I would say we were anxious to pull the trigger."

The Captain and the Argentinian government accepted that the Belgrano was a legitimate target.
The day prior to the sinking the Belgrano was authorised to attack Naval vessels.

 

[Shytalkz]

So the Argies themselves accept that it was an acceptable action; yet some of us here in the UK don't

 

[Trazor]

So the Argies themselves accept that it was an acceptable action; yet some of us here in the UK don't

Only fuzzy minded liberals would question the sinking of a Warship during a War.

 

[Shytalkz]

Ah, but they hang their hats on the fact that it wasn't a declared war, it was a conflict. It's all in the name, you know

 

[gangman]

There was no declaration of war from the UK because there were hopes for a diplomatic solution. Once you've declared war it's harder to pull back.

 

[JohnD]

Some people object to the then Prime Minister blatantly lying about where the ship was and where it was going, in the face of the facts being widely known.

We don't (yet) all consider that acceptable behaviour from the politicians we employ.

Presumably she got away with lying about plenty of other things where the facts weren't so widely known.

I don't think it really helped her for the log of the nuclear submarine to get "lost" before the enquiry.

 

[Trazor]

Some people object to the then Prime Minister blatantly lying about where the ship was and where it was going, in the face of the facts being widely known.

We don't (yet) all consider that acceptable behaviour from the politicians we employ.

A politician that lied, how unusual.

Presumably she got away with lying about plenty of other things where the facts weren't so widely known.

A perfect example of how to use an assumption, to Besmirch someones name.

I don't think it really helped her for the log of the nuclear submarine to get "lost" before the enquiry.

You mean the entry which said "Hand out tea and biscuits, whilst we find a diplomatic solution."
Which was misread as "fire 3 torpedoes."

 

[Norcon]

The sinking of the Belgrano was a necessary part of the successful maritime campaign to repossess the Falklands after its unprovoked seizure by Argentina. The elimination of the latter's fleet inside territorial waters was a precondition for British victory.
Those really responsible for the deaths of the Argentinian sailors on board the old cruiser were the military junta led by General Galtieri. In 1994, Buenos Aires concurred with the Thatcher administration that the Belgrano sinking had been a 'legal act of war', and the Argentinian governments since have not had change of heart on this matter.
The real issues about the sinking were technical ones of command and control. The fact that the affair was blown up out of all recognition in London is more a comment on the dynamics of the contemporary British political system and the weaknesses of Mrs Thatcher's closed approach to government than on the politico-strategic and operational realities of what happened in the south Atlantic.
Much was made of the fate of Conqueror's lost log, which would not, in fact, have shed much light on the salient issues.

SOURCE.
Dr Eric Grove.
Senior lecturer in politics and international studies at the University of Hull, where he is also director of the Centre for Security Studies.

 

[JohnD]

... the weaknesses of Mrs Thatcher's closed approach to government ...

Much was made of the fate of Conqueror's lost log, which would not, in fact, have shed much light on the salient issues.

Like I said, it didn't really help her. Might have done just as well or badly without the evidence being "lost." We'll never know. But some people think that evidence is only "lost" if it reflects badly on whoever "lost" it. Like Geoffrey Archer's office diary.

A politician that lied, how unusual...

...A perfect example of how to use an assumption, to Besmirch someones name.

said Trazor, lightly besmirching the names of politicians everywhere.

 

[Trazor]

A politician that lied, how unusual...

...A perfect example of how to use an assumption, to Besmirch someones name.

said Trazor, lightly besmirching the names of politicians everywhere.

What the hell do you mean, "lightly"............

 

[Rhino7]

Also from wiki:

Though the ship was outside of the 200-mile (320 km) exclusion zone, both sides understood that this was no longer the limit of British action — on 23 April a message was passed via the Swiss Embassy in Buenos Aires to the Argentine government, it read:

In announcing the establishment of a Maritime Exclusion Zone around the Falkland Islands, Her Majesty's Government made it clear that this measure was without prejudice to the right of the United Kingdom to take whatever additional measures may be needed in the exercise of its right of self-defence under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. In this connection Her Majesty's Government now wishes to make clear that any approach on the part of Argentine warships, including submarines, naval auxiliaries or military aircraft, which could amount to a threat to interfere with the mission of British Forces in the South Atlantic will encounter the appropriate response. All Argentine aircraft, including civil aircraft engaged in surveillance of these British forces, will be regarded as hostile and are liable to be dealt with accordingly.

Interviews conducted by Martin Middlebrook for his book, The Fight For The Malvinas, indicated that Argentine Naval officers understood the intent of the message was to indicate that any ships operating near the exclusion zone could be attacked. Argentine Rear-Admiral Allara who was in charge of the task force that the Belgrano was part of said, "After that message of 23 April, the entire South Atlantic was an operational theatre for both sides. We, as professionals, said it was just too bad that we lost the Belgrano".

The Argies messed with us, got their asses kicked for it and didn't whine about it. It was war whether declared or not and a legal attack by our forces.

 

[joe-90]

The Argies messed with us, got their asses kicked for it and didn't whine about it. It was war whether declared or not and a legal attack by our forces.

Half a dozen more Excocets and it would have been a different story. We couldn't have come closer to losing if we'd tried. Hardly 'ass kicking'.

 

[Shytalkz]

Still won though. and a lot of mutual respect between the UK and Argie forces remains to this day.

 

[Rhino7]

Half a dozen more Excocets and it would have been a different story

Well they hit us with a total of 4 exocets iirc, 1 sunk Sheffield, 2 sunk Atlantic Conveyor and 1 damaged Glamorgan.

Yeah, half a dozen more hits would have considerably changed things, but half a dozen is quite a lot more when you consider how were many actually effective.

 

[joe-90]

How many did they have? I seem to recall it was little more than a handful.

If they claimed the islands today we'd let them have them. Ships are no match for missiles.