Sink near socket
- Thread starter jat147
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No defined limit, but it must be suitable for the environment where it's installed, so if it's close enough to get splashed then it must be suitably IP rated.
My preference, and it's purely personal, is no socket within 1.2m.
What you don't want is to be able in a moment of madness to fill the kettle with it still plugged in, or to decide to wash the blades of your hand-held mixer by plunging them into soapy water and turning it on...
My preference, and it's purely personal, is no socket within 1.2m.
What you don't want is to be able in a moment of madness to fill the kettle with it still plugged in, or to decide to wash the blades of your hand-held mixer by plunging them into soapy water and turning it on...
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Hey Ban!
How do you think I clean my Braun Hand Blender???
How do you think I clean my Braun Hand Blender???
B
Big_Spark
As BAS has pointed out there is nothing set in stone, however most contractors, engineers etc will recommend that you should not be able to place a hand on the socket whilst standing in front of the sink, usually a distance of about 1.2m as BAS recommends. However this is only arbitrary, and many new installations have sockets within about 600mm or half this distance.
Realistically you have to use a large spoon of common sense.
Realistically you have to use a large spoon of common sense.
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It depends a lot how far the taps splash etc. from the draining board end it could easily be as little as 300mm, and never a problem. On the other hand height and sideways separation are not equal. Imagine rinsing a spoon under the tap, and it firing water at the wall. Will it hit the socket? Of course if the water flow is a weedy trickle its not so likely as if you are on a super high pressure main. Will people operate the socket with wet hands?
As others have said, no hard and fast rule, but you do have to consider each situation responsibly
.
As others have said, no hard and fast rule, but you do have to consider each situation responsibly
.
B
Big_Spark
crafty1289 said:
All I will say to that statement is Darwinism!
Does anybody know if there has ever been a recorded case of electrocution by operating a modern BS light switch or socket with wet hands?
This is an extract from the NICEIC TECHNICAL MANUAL
SINKS, DOMESTIC AND COMMERCIAL S S145-1
Accessories in close proximity to
Contents
1. Introduction
2. Domestic premises
3. Commercial premises
1. Introduction
Electrical installation designers often ask how close a socket-outlet or other accessory is permitted to be installed to a domestic or commercial kitchen sink, or to a wash basin in a bedroom or cloakroom.
The simple answer is that BS 7671 does not specify a minimum distance. However, Regulation 512-06-01 requires due account to be taken of external influences. An extract from the regulation is reproduced below for ease of reference:
Extract from Regulation 512-06-01:
‘Every item of equipment shall be of a design appropriate to the situation in which it is to be used or its mode of installation shall take account of the conditions likely to be encountered.’
2. Domestic premises
Domestic kitchens, bedrooms and cloakrooms (unlike bathrooms and shower rooms) are not included amongst the special installations or locations in Part 6 of BS 7671 and are not rooms where the resistance of the body is likely to be significantly reduced. Therefore, normal precautions against electric shock should be adequate and the general rules of BS 7671 are applicable.
However, whilst BS 7671 does not forbid the installation of a socket-outlet or other accessory close to a sink in a domestic kitchen, bedroom or cloakroom, the requirements of Regulation 512-06-01 have to be taken into account.
The requirements of Regulation 512-06-01 mean that ordinary BS 1363 socket-outlets and similar accessories are not suitable to be installed so close to sinks or draining boards that they are likely to be splashed with water or operated with wet hands.
The penetration of water into an accessory could have serious effects. Water entering the terminals and mechanism may lead to corrosion, internal arcing, general degradation and eventually malfunction. Additionally, and more seriously, water may provide a track for the phase voltage to be transmitted to the front cover of the accessory, giving rise to the risk of electric shock.
A rule of thumb recommendation for domestic premises, to avoid the effects of splashing, is that ordinary BS 1363 socket-outlets and similar accessories should ideally be mounted not less than about 300 mm (ideally not less than about 1000 mm), in the horizontal plane, from the extremity of a sink top or wash basin.
Where splashing of accessories cannot be avoided, equipment having a degree of protection of at least IPX4 (protection against water splashing from any direction) or IPX5 (protection against water jets from any direction) is likely to be required. This type of equipment is, of course, unlikely to be visually acceptable in most domestic situations indoors.
SINKS, DOMESTIC AND COMMERCIAL S S145-1
Accessories in close proximity to
Contents
1. Introduction
2. Domestic premises
3. Commercial premises
1. Introduction
Electrical installation designers often ask how close a socket-outlet or other accessory is permitted to be installed to a domestic or commercial kitchen sink, or to a wash basin in a bedroom or cloakroom.
The simple answer is that BS 7671 does not specify a minimum distance. However, Regulation 512-06-01 requires due account to be taken of external influences. An extract from the regulation is reproduced below for ease of reference:
Extract from Regulation 512-06-01:
‘Every item of equipment shall be of a design appropriate to the situation in which it is to be used or its mode of installation shall take account of the conditions likely to be encountered.’
2. Domestic premises
Domestic kitchens, bedrooms and cloakrooms (unlike bathrooms and shower rooms) are not included amongst the special installations or locations in Part 6 of BS 7671 and are not rooms where the resistance of the body is likely to be significantly reduced. Therefore, normal precautions against electric shock should be adequate and the general rules of BS 7671 are applicable.
However, whilst BS 7671 does not forbid the installation of a socket-outlet or other accessory close to a sink in a domestic kitchen, bedroom or cloakroom, the requirements of Regulation 512-06-01 have to be taken into account.
The requirements of Regulation 512-06-01 mean that ordinary BS 1363 socket-outlets and similar accessories are not suitable to be installed so close to sinks or draining boards that they are likely to be splashed with water or operated with wet hands.
The penetration of water into an accessory could have serious effects. Water entering the terminals and mechanism may lead to corrosion, internal arcing, general degradation and eventually malfunction. Additionally, and more seriously, water may provide a track for the phase voltage to be transmitted to the front cover of the accessory, giving rise to the risk of electric shock.
A rule of thumb recommendation for domestic premises, to avoid the effects of splashing, is that ordinary BS 1363 socket-outlets and similar accessories should ideally be mounted not less than about 300 mm (ideally not less than about 1000 mm), in the horizontal plane, from the extremity of a sink top or wash basin.
Where splashing of accessories cannot be avoided, equipment having a degree of protection of at least IPX4 (protection against water splashing from any direction) or IPX5 (protection against water jets from any direction) is likely to be required. This type of equipment is, of course, unlikely to be visually acceptable in most domestic situations indoors.
There you are - you see it is possible to give useful advice without banging on about the criminality of installing sockets in kitchens, £5000 fines and unsellable houses.
I could be doing the dishes in the kitchen and walk across the room with dripping hands to grab a dirty pan, suddenly remember i forgot to turn the oven off and switch it off with dripping hands. just as likely, if not more likely than operating a switch right next to the sink. Operating a switch right next to the sink, you are going to think "oh i got wet hands from the sink, better dry them first". Just a thought.
in the kitchen and walk across the room with dripping hands to grab a dirty pan, suddenly remember i forgot to turn the oven off and switch it off with dripping hands. just as likely, if not more likely than operating a switch right next to the sink. Operating a switch right next to the sink, you are going to think "oh i got wet hands from the sink, better dry them first". Just a thought.Mercifully there are not enough accidents to make it worth worrying about - remember of the 10 or so electrocutions each year in the UK, only a couple are due to fixed wiring. You'd have to go back a long way to find an example of a fatal accident involving a sink, wet hands and a socket or switch.
Also consider most of Europe has sockets in the bathroom, and a much larger population, and still no accidents to speak of. In reality people are careful, and tell their children to be so too.
Actually, although not compulsory, I personally think an RCD/RCBO in the feed to switches and sockets above the worktop in kitchens would probably be more sense, though now with part P I can't see anyone bothering to upgrade piecemeal any more except when the whole lot gets rewired. Perhaps just run a 4 way block on the wall on double sided sticky pads fed from the existing sockets.. make sure it doesn't fall into the sink.
Also consider most of Europe has sockets in the bathroom, and a much larger population, and still no accidents to speak of. In reality people are careful, and tell their children to be so too.
Actually, although not compulsory, I personally think an RCD/RCBO in the feed to switches and sockets above the worktop in kitchens would probably be more sense, though now with part P I can't see anyone bothering to upgrade piecemeal any more except when the whole lot gets rewired. Perhaps just run a 4 way block on the wall on double sided sticky pads fed from the existing sockets.. make sure it doesn't fall into the sink.
We have a small toilet/shower room, and the light switch is on the wall outside, and I must admit sometimes after washing my hands, I don't dry them properly before operating the switch, never got a shock off it though.
Though once when a bit of water had made the some dust/muck in the switch damp, my sister complained that she got a shock off it, I tried it to see for myself and I couldn't feel anything, put a mulimeter on it, and I think there was somewhere in the range of 0 - 5ma between the dust in the gap between the switch and the panel and the earthed screws. Replaced the switch and it was all ok.
Though once when a bit of water had made the some dust/muck in the switch damp, my sister complained that she got a shock off it, I tried it to see for myself and I couldn't feel anything, put a mulimeter on it, and I think there was somewhere in the range of 0 - 5ma between the dust in the gap between the switch and the panel and the earthed screws. Replaced the switch and it was all ok.
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