Smoke detectors - notifiable work?

[stagman]

I need to install two linked mains powered smoke detectors. There are no spare ways in the consumer unit so they will have to be fed from a lighting circuit. The question is - is this notifiable work because it is not a new circuit back to the CU but neither is it an additional lighting point. There does not seem to be any mention of smoke alarms on the various lists of notifiable/non-notifiable work that I can find, the regs also seem to ignore them from what I can see.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yes, it's notifiable.

 

[vv2806]

Why is it notifiable?

Untitled

• vv2806
• 25 Aug 2010
• 1

What about section "h"?

 

[MalcofArabia]

notifiable IMO

Read section H, to me when it says "INVOLVES FIXED WIRING" that is exactly what the OP is doing, installing fixed wiring.

I know he is only extending an existing circuit, and it is not in a kitchen or special location, but it is still fixed wiring.

It could also be argued that a Smoke Detector can come under Safety Services, and is a special installation. Personally I don't think it is, Fire Alarms are safety services to me and not smoke dectors, but that is another story.

 

[STI]

notifiable IMO

Read section H, to me when it says "INVOLVES FIXED WIRING" that is exactly what the OP is doing, installing fixed wiring.

I know he is only extending an existing circuit, and it is not in a kitchen or special location, but it is still fixed wiring.

It could also be argued that a Smoke Detector can come under Safety Services, and is a special installation. Personally I don't think it is, Fire Alarms are safety services to me and not smoke dectors, but that is another story.

I am pretty sure there has been discussions about this before with the use of the term "and" in the sentence you mention. Does this mean its only notifiable when the two elements are combined So fixed wiring which also(and) includes the instalation of a new circuit is notifiable.

If as some argue its saying if you do fixed wiring or an addition of a new circuit both situations need notifying then it appears to me that just about the only thing that wouldnt need notifying is the like for like replacement of fixtures and fitments such as socket outlets, light pendants, ceiling roses etc..

I dont think the intent of the requirments nor in all honesty could the infrastructure support the need to notify just about everything.

 

[MalcofArabia]

I have always looked at it this way.

The work the OP is going to do will need a Minors Work Certificate. Because he is extending an existing circuit. You can of course just give the certification to the client and be done with it if you felt it was not notifiable. Though to cover myself I thought that if you write out certification to the BS 7671-2008 you should register it as it is notifiable

I'm sure they sent it off to the Building Control, but what happened then is down to the LABC.

If I was doing a like for like replacement, or replacing a damaged cable that are not notifiable, I still would do a few tests and issue the client only a MWC and a courtesy call to the scheme to say what I done and ask if they want me to send the results off. All this I would document though

 

[davelx]

notifiable IMO

Read section H, to me when it says "INVOLVES FIXED WIRING" that is exactly what the OP is doing, installing fixed wiring.

I know he is only extending an existing circuit, and it is not in a kitchen or special location, but it is still fixed wiring.

But it does not " involve fixed wiring AND the installation of a new circuit", so that condition is false. It's not notifiable on that basis. (Standard rules of logical precedence apply to the comprehension of that sentence - there's implicit braketing around those terms.)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That text in Approved Document P does NOT agree with the wording of the actual law. See Schedule 2B.

But it does look as though it gives stagman perfectly safe grounds for proceeding as if the work isn't notifiable.

 

[stagman]

That text in Approved Document P does NOT agree with the wording of the actual law. See Schedule 2B.

But it does look as though it gives stagman perfectly safe grounds for proceeding as if the work isn't notifiable.

I'm now more confused than ever - as in so many of these threads, even you guys disagree about the interpretation of the regs so what chance do us plebs stand? Are they deliberately written in an ambiguous way?

If the argument is whether fixed wiring can be added or not, I struggle to see how you can add a lighting point and switch (which is not notifiable) without adding fixed wiring. In fact, adding a smoke detector is less involved because no switch drop is required and the wiring is all in a void or under a floor.

So the answer seems to be maybe I can, maybe I can't. I suppose as ever, the safest course is to farm the work out to a registered spark because at the end of the day, the BCO could get ugly about it and refuse to sign the thing off.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm now more confused than ever - as in so many of these threads, even you guys disagree about the interpretation of the regs so what chance do us plebs stand? Are they deliberately written in an ambiguous way?

No.

The problem, or confusion, lies with Approved Document P, not the regulations. If you read Schedule 2B you'll see that adding smoke detectors is not on the list, and therefore is notifiable.

But as the official guidance (Approved Document P) says it isn't, then nobody is going to come after you if you follow what it says.

 

[stagman]

The problem, or confusion, lies with Approved Document P, not the regulations. If you read Schedule 2B you'll see that adding smoke detectors is not on the list, and therefore is notifiable.

But as the official guidance (Approved Document P) says it isn't, then nobody is going to come after you if you follow what it says.

Schedule 2B appears to preclude adding lighting points and switches, also socket outlets/fused spurs (unless they know a way of doing it without adding cable, in which case I'd be intrigued to know how), whereas doc P permits it - am I right?

 

[STI]

2.
Work which—
(a)
is not in a kitchen, or a special location,
(b)
does not involve work on a special installation, and
(c)
consists of—
(i)
adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit; or
(ii)
adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit;

Youre right about the lack of precise wording but as far as the above extract goes it states adding is ok on an existing circuit. So i interpret this, because i want to and otherwise its as you say somewhat ridiculous, i can do this work without notification (except in bathrooms kitchens etc). If however i put in a new circuit that required a new connection to the CU then i would need to notify. It doesnt specifically mention smoke alarms but neither does it specifically mention double or single socket outlets chandeliers or pendants.

Why not ask your BC and see what they say.