Socket for diswasher

[tko50]

Hi, I am currently refitting my kitchen and intend to install a dishwasher but will need another socket under the worktop to plug it in. Now I was all set to fit another switched fused connection unit and drop down to a socket but I am limited for space to put the connection unit due to there being windows in the way as well as other twin sockets.
I am aware that an alternative method used by many is to just spur off one of the sockets above down to a socket fitted in one of the nearby units and plug the appliance in there. Not everyone's favourite method of doing things I know but in this instance it would be most convenient.
So my question is what type of connection method do I use to get from the chase down the wall to the back of the kitchen base unit? How do I come out of the wall and bridge across to the unit with twin and earth? Is there a junction box for this or do I use a flex outlet?

Thanks.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Firstly you have to confirm if the feed socket can be spurred from, so you would need to investigate in to whether the circuit is a radial or a ring final.
If a ring final you would then need to confirm that the feed socket is not a spurred socket as you cannot spur from an unfused spurred socket.
If radial you ar general okay to take a unfused spur from it

Then if all is ok, I would chase directly vertical of the feed socket, then could allow for enough slack on the cable to bridge across to base unit, then connect socket direct to continuous cable. You could if wanted sink a single backbox in wall where cable is to bridge across, still keep the slack cable but use a flex outlet plate and thread the cable through the plate without the need of any joints, as joints are best avoided.
You will need as a requirement to have RCD protection of any buried cable and for the new socket, also you would require to have the socket and new cable tested to prove it is safe to put in to service.

 

[tko50]

Firstly you have to confirm if the feed socket can be spurred from, so you would need to investigate in to whether the circuit is a radial or a ring final.
If a ring final you would then need to confirm that the feed socket is not a spurred socket as you cannot spur from an unfused spurred socket.
If radial you ar general okay to take a unfused spur from it

Then if all is ok, I would chase directly vertical of the feed socket, then could allow for enough slack on the cable to bridge across to base unit, then connect socket direct to continuous cable. You could if wanted sink a single backbox in wall where cable is to bridge across, still keep the slack cable but use a flex outlet plate and thread the cable through the plate without the need of any joints, as joints are best avoided.
You will need as a requirement to have RCD protection of any buried cable and for the new socket, also you would require to have the socket and new cable tested to prove it is safe to put in to service.

Yes, sorry I should have said, it is on the ring and not already a spur. The circuit is also RCD protected at the DB so all is good.

I think I will go with your second option, ie coming through a flex outlet but without braking the cable. This method did occur to me but I was not sure whether there was a standard procedure for this type of thing that I had overlooked.

Thanks for the reply and advice.

 

[winston1]

Quote: Now I was all set to fit another switched fused connection unit and drop down to a socket. Quote.

This would have been wrong anyway. Two 13 A fuses in the same circuit is pointless.

 

[DaftPunk]

But it's not wrong is it?

 

[JohnD]

It is one of the methods which gives you an easily-accessible means of isolation above the worktop, so not at all pointless.

Having a socket under the worktop makes it quick and easy to install and remove the appliance, without needing tools or skill, so, again, not pointless.

It is a bit cheaper than using a 30A switch above the worktop. Again not pointless.

On average, appliance fuses blow approximately never, so that is how often you will have the task of identifying and replacing one or both of the fuses.

 

[EFLImpudence]

It is one of the methods which gives you an easily-accessible means of isolation above the worktop, so not at all pointless.

The fuse is pointless.

Having a socket under the worktop makes it quick and easy to install and remove the appliance, without needing tools or skill, so, again, not pointless.

That's going to be there anyway.

It is a bit cheaper than using a 30A switch above the worktop. Again not pointless.

20A will do. Do they make 30A?
Obviously there are some FCUs which are cheaper than some switches but surely with the same specs a mere switch is bound to be cheaper.

On average, appliance fuses blow approximately never, so that is how often you will have the task of identifying and replacing one or both of the fuses.

So, even more pointless.

 

[JohnD]

The fuse is pointless.

Are you going to claim that it is any way harmful?

Having a socket under the worktop makes it quick and easy to install and remove the appliance, without needing tools or skill, so, again, not pointless.

That's going to be there anyway.

you must have missed the mention of a flex outlet.

 

[EFLImpudence]

The fuse is pointless.

Are you going to claim that it is any way harmful?

No. That is not what 'pointless' means.

 

[JohnD]

It is a bit cheaper than using a 30A switch above the worktop. Again not pointless.

look up the prices. I have done previously.

I note but do not support your idea of using an unfused 20A switch on a 32A RFC.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Just seen your edit -

you must have missed the mention of a flex outlet.

I did not miss it. I did not understand it as -

I am aware that an alternative method used by many is to just spur off one of the sockets above down to a socket fitted in one of the nearby units and plug the appliance in there. Not everyone's favourite method of doing things I know but in this instance it would be most convenient.

Re: the FCU

Now I was all set to fit another switched fused connection unit and drop down to a socket but I am limited for space to put the connection unit due to there being windows in the way as well as other twin sockets.

look up the prices. I have done previously.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/crabtree-20a-dp-switch-neon-polished-brass-flt-plate/82166

I note but do not support your idea of using an unfused 20A switch on a 32A RFC.

Nevertheless, it is quite acceptable.

 

[JohnW2]

I note but do not support your idea of using an unfused 20A switch on a 32A RFC.

Can you help me understand the reason for your lack of support, given that we're talking about there being an upstream (and very close) 13A fuse? ... we're really talking about the equivalent of a switched FCU, but with a little more distance than usual between the switch and the fuse!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The fuse is pointless.

Are you going to claim that it is any way harmful?

No. That is not what 'pointless' means.

OK, I will.

Fuses are held in by spring clips, which can weaken, oxidise, get dirty in other ways - basically a fuse and holder can (and do) dangerously overheat.

To include one in a circuit creates the potential for harm.

 

[AndyPRK]

We will be like India soon.

RF getting rid of RCD's
Bans getting rid of fuses.


Mind you its nothing like what they are trying on IET. (getting rid of earthing)

http://www.theiet.org/Forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=58354&enterthread=y

 

[bernardgreen]

Mind you its nothing like what they are trying on IET. (getting rid of earthing)

I read it trying to replace the pseudo earths of PME with genuine earths of TT systems. Still need the RCDs ( double pole ) on the in comer and ( optionally ) on the sub circuits.

When the network cost reduction PME was thought up metal theft of Neutral links at substations were un-heard off.

Perhaps it is time to re-think PME in the light of the incidents where a stolen or failed neutral has created hazards
[1] people touching ground and bonded metal work
[2] unbondable but conductive materials providing a path to ground
[3] fires where bond wires from MET to metallic service pipes have not been able to carry the neutral current for the local area.