Socket Switching Mystery...

[rowan138]

in my kitchen i have 2 double sockets on one wall, however, when the switch of a single socket on the opposite side of the wall (in the garage) is turned off, these two double sockets are turned off as well!!
(there isnt anything plugged into the offending single socket either)

adjacent to the single socket in the garage is another single (unswitched) socket and an FCU for an under cabinet heater in the kitchen.
i dont know what is causing this, but i do hope it isnt bodgery...

the house is a mid 70's build. there is 2 wylex 4 way fuseboxes, one has mcb's fitted, the other still has fuses.

 

[mfarrow]

It feels like a bodge, you should never be able to switch a socket and it turn off something other than what's plugged in. Do you feel competent to switch off the supply and open it up to take photos?

'Still' having fuses, that second board is just as compliant as the one with MCBs. Unfortunately neither are compliant with latest regulations, although there is no obligation to bring the installation up to scratch. Having said that though, if the socket is representative of the rest of the installation it maybe worth having an electrician undertake an Electrical Installation Condition Report on it to highlight whatever else is amiss.

 

[JohnW2]

It feels like a bodge, you should never be able to switch a socket and it turn off something other than what's plugged in.

I'm not sure what sort of bodge could result in this - on the face of it, what the OP is describing is totally impossible, for the reason you give. The switch on a socket does, and can, only control the supply to a plugged-in plug!

rowan138: I presume that the single socket in garage is just a single socket, and not something more complicated like a cooker control unit (incorporating a single socket)?

Kind Regards, John

 

[plugwash]

My gut feeling is a combination of a spur, a loose connection and movement inside the single socket when the switch is switched.

The first course of action I would suggest is opening up the single socket and inspecting for loose connections.

 

[JohnW2]

My gut feeling is a combination of a spur, a loose connection and movement inside the single socket when the switch is switched.

Yes, I suppose that is one of the few combinations of things that could explain what is happening. However, I had assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the OP was saying the the kitchen sockets consistently and reversibly went dead when the garage socket switch was off, and became live again when the garage socket was switched on. It seems extremely unlikley that such an (itself pretty extraordinary) situation would arise consistently by the mechanism you suggest. Mind you, if you're not right, then goodness only knows!

The first course of action I would suggest is opening up the single socket and inspecting for loose connections.

Agreed.

Kind Regards, John

 

[bernardgreen]

Picture of the socket in the garage would help.

Is it a normal socket or is it an unswitched socket next to an isolator ( FCU or similar ) and the kitchen sockets have been wired from the switched side of that isolator ?

 

[rowan138]

here are a few pics, if it is any help:

the socket arrangement in the garage:

socket arrangement

• rowan138
• 6 Oct 2014
• 1

the FCU, when switched off, it only isolates the supply to an under cabinet heater fitted in the kitchen and nothing else (heater is on the opposite side of the wall).

i can confirm, when the switched socket is switched off, the two double sockets in the kitchen are also switched off! (whatever is plugged into them stops working!)

i checked them using a radio (turned up enough so i could hear it playing). when the switched socket in the garage is turned off, the radio, if plugged into either one of the double sockets in the kitchen, stops playing. when the switched socket is turned back on, the radio starts playing again! i have not even the first idea how this could happen...

the fuseboards and meter, if it is any help:

fuseboards and elec meter

• rowan138
• 6 Oct 2014
• 1

 

[JohnW2]

i can confirm, when the switched socket is switched off, the two double sockets in the kitchen are also switched off! (whatever is plugged into them stops working!) ... i checked them using a radio (turned up enough so i could hear it playing). when the switched socket in the garage is turned off, the radio, if plugged into either one of the double sockets in the kitchen, stops playing. when the switched socket is turned back on, the radio starts playing again! i have not even the first idea how this could happen...

Thanks. Do I take it that this happens repeatedly and consistently - i.e. every time you switch off the socket in the garage the radio plugged in in kitchen goes off, and when you switch the garage socket back on, the radio comes back on?

If so, it's true extraordinary! As has been said, a photo of what's going on within that single socket (with all power turned off) might conceivably give us some clues - although I honestly can't think what we could see that would provide an answer!

Do you know which breaker in your consumer unit turns off that socket in garage? If so, what else goes off when you turn it off? Do the two sockets in the kitchen go off, and do any other sockets in the house become dead?

Kind Regards, John

 

[sparkwright]

Have you checked it with anything else other than a radio, such as a plug-in light, just to make absolutely sure?

It seems a very unusual fault, but may be useful just to eliminate the radio.

As said, pics may help here.

 

[Lectrician]

Do we assume when you say socket, you mean the right hand one with two grey cables coming down into it?

 

[JohnW2]

Do we assume when you say socket, you mean the right hand one with two grey cables coming down into it?

I think that's a very reasonable assumption! - the OP told us separately and specifically about the offending socket (with a switch), the unswitched socket and the SFCU.

Kind Regards, John

 

[conny]

Has anyone noticed the un-switched socket has mounting screws top and bottom, not either side as is usual.
Also, the fcu has a cord outlet yet it is wired in through the patress box.

Whole thing seems to raise suspicions to me.

 

[JohnW2]

Has anyone noticed the un-switched socket has mounting screws top and bottom, not either side as is usual. Also, the fcu has a cord outlet yet it is wired in through the patress box. Whole thing seems to raise suspicions to me.

All true, but none of that even remotely starts to explain what the OP is describing!

Kind Regards, John

 

[Robin0577]

.

Whole thing seems to raise suspicions to me.

Me too...

First suspicion is that were looking at multiple spurs from spurs here. IF the 2 grey cables are in fact part of a ring final that is. We can assume that if 2 the 2 double sockets in the kitchen are affected then they must also be wires as spurs, if they were part of a ring then multiple faults would be required o give these symptoms.

Second suspicion is that we're looking at the work of a genius bodger here, which makes almost anything possible...

 

[Robin0577]

Ok, here's an off-the-wall theory...

You know how on a few, mostly older designs of accessory there's a pair of little springy brass terminal things post-switch where the flyleads from an optional neon indicator are supposed to go....

Suppose you were a master bodger and you ran out of space in the main terminals....

Nobody would be that daft, would they?