Sockets breaker is for both floors. Can it be split?

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Hey guys.

I moved to a new house last year and it has a breaker that controls both floors sockets all together. My old house was seperate. Is it possible to have a breaker for each floor and how much work would it take please?
 
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Yes ,it's possible. Get a few quotes from electricians ,who will need more information than what you have posted here.
 
Yes ,it's possible. Get a few quotes from electricians ,who will need more information than what you have posted here.

Ok thanks. What other information would be helpful? I have a picture of the consumer unit?
 
That's a start , but a site visit by electricians in your area is really what you need. Labour costs vary considerably by geographical locations.
 
What size breaker is it, its not unheard of for two radials bunched up on one mcb
 
Do you really need the sockets separated? Are you having nuisance trips?
If the kitchen has a separate ring, that takes off a lot of the load.
I have a single ring for sockets up and downstairs; but with only AV, phone chargers, and a couple of LED lamps, I don't get anywhere near 32A :)

Edit: hairdryer, straighteners and the iron aren't used simultaneously! ;)
 
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"how much work" is very much a "how long is a piece of string" question.

If someone has just shoved two otherwise-separate circuits in one breaker (perhaps to free up some space in the CU), then splitting them again would involve little effort. On the other hand if the upstairs and downstairs sockets were always part of the same circuit then splitting them up may essentially mean either rewiring or introducing a shedload of junction boxes. In general introducing lots of junction boxes is not considered desirable.

I would step back and ask what is the problem you are trying to solve?
 
Equally, and especially with several recent topics, It may equally be feasible to slipt the ring into 2 20 or 25A radials
 
Equally, and especially with several recent topics, It may equally be feasible to slipt the ring into 2 20 or 25A radials
True, but it's not clear that would really achieve in terms of the OP's situation. As has been asked, one has to wonder whether there is some 'good (electrical) reason' why the OP wants the up/down sockets circuits separated (I rather doubt that there is), or whether he would prefer that "because that's how it's commonly done".

Kind Regards, John
 
True, but it's not clear that would really achieve in terms of the OP's situation. As has been asked, one has to wonder whether there is some 'good (electrical) reason' why the OP wants the up/down sockets circuits separated (I rather doubt that there is), or whether he would prefer that "because that's how it's commonly done".

Kind Regards, John

Yes, he may well be better off leaving as it is.

Unless he is planning on redecoration and new flooring, depending how the circuit has been wired, there may be a fair bit of disruption, and not really achieve very much.
 
Yes, he may well be better off leaving as it is. Unless he is planning on redecoration and new flooring, depending how the circuit has been wired, there may be a fair bit of disruption, and not really achieve very much.
Indeed - that was my point. Of course, there could possibly be some 'good reason' for doing as he has suggested/asked, but I personally doubt that there is!

Kind Regards, John
 
Main reason to split is so if some thing causes the supply to trip, you don't loose all sockets, with a typical 60 amp supply to a home, unlikely you would draw more current than one circuit could supply, but could have more leakage to earth than a single 30 mA RCD can reliably hold in at, the limit is considered as 9 mA. It would need to be a rather large home for this to be a problem, and step one would be all RCBO (MCB and RCD combined) before looking at splitting, and since should one ring final fail you would not want extension leads up/down stairs, better to be split side to side than up down.

If the total load is a problem then better to remove some heavy loads,
Appendix 15 BS 7671:2008 said:
The load current in any part of the circuit should be unlikely to exceed for long periods the current-carrying capacity of the cable (Regulation 433.1.5 refers). This can generally be achieved by:
(i) locating socket-outlets to provide reasonable sharing of the load around the ring
(ii) not supplying immersion heaters, comprehensive electric space heating or loads of a similar profile from the ring circuit
(iii) connecting cookers, ovens and hobs with a rated power exceeding 2 kW on their own dedicated radial circuit
(iv) taking account of the total floor area being served. (Historically, limit of 100 m² has been adopted.)

It was the 100 m² bit which resulted in two ring finals, the volt drop permitted was I think 4% which from memory was considered to means 88 meters of cable limit on a ring final, this changed to 5% power and 3% lighting so ring final limit increased to 106 meters of cable.

Near impossible to measure the length of cable in meters, but one can measure the loop impedance or prospective short circuit current since voltage fixed at 230 volt, in real terms both show the same. So with an incoming supply with 0.35 Ω mid way around the ring final we should measure less than 0.94 Ω if the volt drop is within the 11.5 volt permitted with a 32 amp ring final. This assumes a design current Ib of 26 amp, that is 20 amp at centre and 12 amp even drawn throughout the ring final so not written in stone.

Whole idea is to keep the amount of cable used to a minimum. The less cable the better the loop impedance, and the 1/3 rule on drilling beams resulted in more cable being used, having one ring final with all socket points going down and another with them all going up means the one where the points go down uses more cable so a better loop impedance up stairs to down stairs, so again better split side to side so both rings have an even load and loop impedance.

But as an after thought not easy, so likely best option is to run a kitchen or utility room ring to remove heavy loads like dish washer, washing machine, tumble drier, oven, kettle etc from the general ring final.
 
Main reason to split is so if some thing causes the supply to trip, you don't loose all sockets ...
Whilst having more than one sockets circuit obviously achieves that, I strongly suspect that the "!main reason" for 'always' installing more than one such circuit has been "because that's how it has always been done", with little/no thought beyond that!
It was the 100 m² bit which resulted in two ring finals, the volt drop permitted was I think 4% ...
As you quote, even in 2008, the regs merely said that 100m was what had been "adopted historically". Also, and despite the implications of the OSG, what BS7671 has to say about VD is only by way of 'guidelines' and, in practice, (a) it will be very rare that a domestic sockets circuit is 'fully loaded' to the extent that the VD at any point would be as high as 'calculated' and (b) it seems to me to be all a bit silly to talk about a 'maximum' VD of 5% from the origin of an installation when it is permitted for the voltage at the origin of the installation to vary by 16% !

Kind Regards, John
 
There is a difference between 100m. length of cable as a rule of thumb and the utterly fatuous 100 square m. supposed area limit for Rings.
 
There is a difference between 100m. length of cable as a rule of thumb and the utterly fatuous 100 square m. supposed area limit for Rings.
Indeed there is. However, although eric usually goes on about the "106m maximum" cable length for a 2.5mm² ring final, on this occasion he chose to talk about the ('historical') 100m floor area figure - which, as you say, is basically just silly!

Apart from anything else, some of the parts of my house (i.e the upper floors) which have the largest floor areas also have the smallest electrical demand - so one really cannot sensibly draw any conclusion about electricity requirements from floor areas!

Kind Regards, John
 

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