Solar panel install in Southampton area at cost for MCS

[ban-all-sheds]

I am and have been truthful.

No wonder you're so agitated, as I said that only an idiot would think that.

I read your posts as you had submitted them in much the same way that anyone else visiting this thread would do. You said PV does not work, you were unequivocal, it does not work.

So all the posts about how much they produced, and at what cost, and how realistic it was that they could be used to feed energy back into the grid went right over your head, and did not establish any form of context whatsoever in your mind?

Ye Gods.

What I may or may not have understood by that is of no importance.

Actually, it's of huge importance if you're going start calling me a liar because you failed to take notice of any of the context in this topic.

And anyway - you said above, quite unequivocally, that you understood by what I wrote that I meant that PV panels would output literally nothing, so how can there be any concept of what you may or may not have understood?

Now - whether you put the responsibility for your misunderstanding on your shoulders for failing to grasp the context, or on mine for failing to spell the context out in great detail every time I posted, do you now see that you did misunderstand me, and that I was not lying?

Those will less knowledge would perhaps take what you said as you intended.

You must class yourself in that group then, as you said above, quite unequivocally, that you understood by what I wrote that I meant that PV panels would output literally nothing.

You further said that as a result of the FIT people would die this winter. That is untrue and in my understanding of the meaning of the word "lie" is in fact a lie also.

Then your understanding of the meaning of the word is deeply flawed, to the extent that using it when you are in such abject ignorance of what it means is very wrong of you.

If you do not lie I can assure you I will not call you a liar.

Well - if you can get your brain around the concept that a lie has to be an untruth knowingly told, with the intent to deceive, I'll ask you once more to find proof that I have lied.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Dunno I only skimmed over the topic. I've got better things to do with my life than read all this drivel.

You are not qualified to call it drivel if you haven't read it.

Do you carry out designs and installations for your customers on the basis of just skimming over their specifications because you think that's enough for you to understand them fully?

 

[holmslaw]

I'm in danger of running out of popcorn and coke, sorry did'nt mean to interfere just thought it might be more interesting.

 

[electronicsuk]

You further said that as a result of the FIT people would die this winter. That is untrue and in my understanding of the meaning of the word "lie" is in fact a lie also.

I don't see how either yourself or ban-all-sheds can prove or disprove this.

There is no doubt that the cost of feed-in tariffs is being passed on to customers by energy suppliers, and I agree with much of what has been said in this thread regarding the ineffectiveness of PV microgeneration in this country. If it wasn't for the FIT, nobody would bother. That's before you even factor in the raw materials and amount of power required to produce the panels, which may well never be paid back in the lifetime of the panel in the UK's climate.

That said, whether or not the increase in the cost of domestic electricity due to funding of the FIT is enough to stop OAPs switching on their heating is difficult to prove.

 

[ricicle]

I am about to carry out a feasibility study to deter my management from wasting our money on PV systems.

Yes they will generate some electricity but not enough to be economically viable. Most companies look for a 3 to 5 year max. payback time on 'green' items. Payback on PV is a lot longer....

 

[ajstoneservices]

I am and have been truthful.

No wonder you're so agitated, as I said that only an idiot would think that.

I make no claims to be anything more

I read your posts as you had submitted them in much the same way that anyone else visiting this thread would do. You said PV does not work, you were unequivocal, it does not work.

So all the posts about how much they produced, and at what cost, and how realistic it was that they could be used to feed energy back into the grid went right over your head, and did not establish any form of context whatsoever in your mind?

Ye Gods.

I take note of everything you or anyone else takes the time to post on these forums My response was "it makes little financial sense without the fit"

What I may or may not have understood by that is of no importance.

Actually, it's of huge importance if you're going start calling me a liar because you failed to take notice of any of the context in this topic.

I read your posts as someone with less knowledge would and as I believe you intended.
I concluded that you lied to bolster your argument.

And anyway - you said above, quite unequivocally, that you understood by what I wrote that I meant that PV panels would output literally nothing, so how can there be any concept of what you may or may not have understood?

I read your posts as someone with less knowledge would and as I believe you intended. Your later qualifications did not help with you're earlier claim.

Now - whether you put the responsibility for your misunderstanding on your shoulders for failing to grasp the context, or on mine for failing to spell the context out in great detail every time I posted, do you now see that you did misunderstand me, and that I was not lying?

I accept that you do not want to be seen to have lied and that maybe as a result of your failure to understand what lying is. To me it is clear, you lied.

Those will less knowledge would perhaps take what you said as you intended.

You must class yourself in that group then, as you said above, quite unequivocally, that you understood by what I wrote that I meant that PV panels would output literally nothing.

I read your posts as someone with less knowledge would and as I believe you intended. You cannot mis-lead me, but you may someone else with your assertions.

You further said that as a result of the FIT people would die this winter. That is untrue and in my understanding of the meaning of the word "lie" is in fact a lie also.

Then your understanding of the meaning of the word is deeply flawed, to the extent that using it when you are in such abject ignorance of what it means is very wrong of you.

I believe this may help you

Lie
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
This article is about untruthfulness. For other uses, see Lie (disambiguation).

A lie (also called prevarication, falsehood) is a known untruth expressed as truth.

A lie is a type of deception in the form of an untruthful statement, especially with the intention to deceive others, often with the further intention to maintain a secret or reputation, protect someone's feelings or to avoid a punishment or repercussion for one's actions. To lie is to state something that one knows to be false or that one does not honestly believe to be true with the intention that a person will take it for the truth. A liar is a person who is lying, who has previously lied, or who tends by nature to lie repeatedly - even when not necessary.

Lying is typically used to refer to deceptions in oral or written communication. Other forms of deception, such as disguises or forgeries, are generally not considered lies, though the underlying intent may be the same. However, even a true statement can be used to deceive. In this situation, it is the intent of being overall untruthful rather than the truthfulness of any individual statement that is considered the lie.

If you do not lie I can assure you I will not call you a liar.

Well - if you can get your brain around the concept that a lie has to be an untruth knowingly told, with the intent to deceive, I'll ask you once more to find proof that I have lied.

Please see above quote.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

FITs are happening in many countries - there's a very large population to be affected. And as more and more people sign up for the schemes, the bills will have to go up more and more, not (criminally) to fund R&D into alternative technology which will be of any use, but just to pay people to do something useless.

I am genuinely convinced that the trend, worldwide, is that more vulnerable people will die because electricity costs more. There's a tipping point for everyone who can't afford to use what they actually need, and sooner or later that extra day without enough heat is going to push someone over the edge.

No - I can't prove it, but I expect as time goes by the statistics will bear me out.

BUT EVEN IF I AM WRONG, BEING WRONG IS NOT THE SAME AS BEING A LIAR.

I can't begin to imagine how ajstoneservices functions if he takes every statement he hears or reads literally, if he is unable to ever understand the context of anything he ever hears or reads, and if he equates simply being wrong with being a liar and then accuses everyone who is simply wrong of being a two-faced liar.

 

[ajstoneservices]

I am about to carry out a feasibility study to deter my management from wasting our money on PV systems.
.

PMSL

 

[ajstoneservices]

FITs are happening in many countries - there's a very large population to be affected. And as more and more people sign up for the schemes, the bills will have to go up more and more, not (criminally) to fund R&D into alternative technology which will be of any use, but just to pay people to do something useless.

I am genuinely convinced that the trend, worldwide, is that more vulnerable people will die because electricity costs more. There's a tipping point for everyone who can't afford to use what they actually need, and sooner or later that extra day without enough heat is going to push someone over the edge.

No - I can't prove it, but I expect as time goes by the statistics will bear me out.

At last some reasoned explanation from you

I have not at any point said that I agree with the FIT. I also want more money put into R&D that won't happen without uptake of the existing technology. You may not like it but you know that's how things work, early adopters pay for any future improvement. The fact is we need to find new reliable energy sources fast, we will all have to pay more and use less.

Statistics may also prove you wrong, as well you know.

If you take the care in your posts that you demand from others you will not find yourself being accused of lying.

Edit: I sense a little humility in bas

 

[holmslaw]

BUT EVEN IF I AM WRONG, BEING WRONG IS NOT THE SAME AS BEING A LIAR.

Quite right,you're just a liar.

 

[ajstoneservices]

BUT EVEN IF I AM WRONG, BEING WRONG IS NOT THE SAME AS BEING A LIAR.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/themarbleintheoatmeal/smilies/watchdrama8jm.gif[/img[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure what your link means but have an A for effort.

 

[holmslaw]

see above

 

[ajstoneservices]

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I read your posts as someone with less knowledge would and as I believe you intended.

What you believe is incorrect.

You still haven't really answered this question - you seem to be saying that you pretended to read my posts as someone with less knowledge would because for some reason, not based on any evidence whatsoever, you decided that what I was doing was trying to lie.

When I wrote that PV didn't work in this country did YOU REALLY believe that I meant that PV panels would output literally nothing?

I concluded that you lied to bolster your argument.

Your febrile conclusions do not equate to evidence.

Where is your evidence to justify repeatedly accusing me of lying?

I read your posts as someone with less knowledge would and as I believe you intended.

Never mind what you, again with no evidence, decided other people who you don't know might choose to think I meant.

When YOU read what I wrote about PV not working in this country did YOU REALLY believe that I meant that PV panels would output literally nothing?

Yes or no?

Forget all this twaddle about you deciding to interpret it in a way you imagined other people might, YOU are the one accusing me of being a lair.

So when YOU read it did YOU believe that I was saying that PV panels would output literally nothing?

YES OR NO?

Your later qualifications did not help with you're earlier claim.

My later "qualifications" were an attempt to remind people that there was a great deal of context already established in this thread, lest any of them should be idiotic enough to behave as if there wasn't.

I accept that you do not want to be seen to have lied and that maybe as a result of your failure to understand what lying is. To me it is clear, you lied.

You just won't ******* leave it alone, will you?

Where is your EVIDENCE that I have lied?

Not where is your artificial interpretation of what I wrote wherein you posit a mindset in people who are unable to grasp the context established by all the preceding posts.

Not where is your artificial interpretation of what I wrote wherein you arbitrarily decide that I intended to deceive such people.

Not where is there an example of a statement of mine with which you disagree.

I mean Where is your EVIDENCE that I have LIED?

I read your posts as someone with less knowledge would and as I believe you intended.

What you believe is incorrect.

You cannot mis-lead me, but you may someone else with your assertions.

I am not trying to mislead you, or anyone else.

Even without trying though, did I mislead you?

Stop trying to wriggle out of calling me a liar on the grounds that you decided to imagine what other people might think.

YOU are the one accusing me of being a lair.

When YOU read what I wrote about PV not working in this country did YOU really, truthfully and honestly believe that I meant that PV panels would output literally nothing?

Yes or no?

I believe this may help you

It's more likely to be of help to you.

You've quoted it - perhaps now you'd care to take the trouble to actually read and understand it?

I'll highlight a few words to make it easier for you.

Lie
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
This article is about untruthfulness. For other uses, see Lie (disambiguation).

A lie (also called prevarication, falsehood) is a known untruth expressed as truth.

A lie is a type of deception in the form of an untruthful statement, especially with the intention to deceive others, often with the further intention to maintain a secret or reputation, protect someone's feelings or to avoid a punishment or repercussion for one's actions. To lie is to state something that one knows to be false or that one does not honestly believe to be true with the intention that a person will take it for the truth. A liar is a person who is lying, who has previously lied, or who tends by nature to lie repeatedly - even when not necessary.

Lying is typically used to refer to deceptions in oral or written communication. Other forms of deception, such as disguises or forgeries, are generally not considered lies, though the underlying intent may be the same. However, even a true statement can be used to deceive. In this situation, it is the intent of being overall untruthful rather than the truthfulness of any individual statement that is considered the lie.

So - I'll ask you once again, since you seem to be having trouble spotting this request:

Where is your EVIDENCE that I have written something that I know to be false or that I do not honestly believe to be true with the intention that a person will take it for the truth?

Not where is there something I have written which you think is incorrect, or even which you know is incorrect.

Not where is there something which you found misleading because you weren't paying attention, or which you did understand but decided to act on a presumed misunderstanding that others might have, not even where is there something which was genuinely misleading because of my failure to communicate properly.

WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE THAT I HAVE LIED?

Please see above quote.

I have done.

Have you?

If so, then please provide your EVIDENCE which shows that I have written a known untruth expressed as truth.

If so, then please provide your EVIDENCE which shows that I have written untruthful statements, especially with the intention to deceive others.

If so then please provide your EVIDENCE which shows that I stated something that I KNEW to be false or that I DID NOT HONESTLY BELIEVE TO BE TRUE with the intention that a person will take it for the truth.

In short, please provide your EVIDENCE which shows that I LIED.

If you cannot do that then you have no business making such an accusation once, let alone over and over again, and you must retract it and apologise.

 

[ajstoneservices]

Are you now claiming that you didn't know what you were saying