Solution to extending CH to conservatory

[bbdimitriu]

Hello folks,

We have recently built a conservatory (it's done properly with good isolation under the floor, high quality glazing etc) and we would like to install radiators connected to the CH.

The boiler is a condensing Ecotec Pro which works without any problems with the existing radiators in 4 rooms (living room, 2 bedrooms and 1 bathroom) and it is installed on the ground floor (in the kitchen).

We have had a plumber that suggested we connect the conservatory radiators by extending the pipe from one of the bedrooms on the first floor (this one is at the end of the circuit). This seems like the easiest way to do the job, with the least amount of disruption.

On the other hand another plumber suggested that this is a wrong solution, because the pipe circuit goes up from the ground floor to the first floor and then back to the ground floor. He said that this is a bad design which will lead in time to air getting into the system and hence we will have to bleed the radiators very often. He suggested that the conservatory radiators should be connected to the one in the living room which is also on the ground floor (more difficult but not impossible).

My question is - is the first option a problem as the second plumber stated?

 

[Richard C]

Prior to October 2010, it was permissible to connect from the main heating system to heat your conservatory providing the loop was capable of isolation & had independent temperature controls; in it’s simplest form this would have been TRV’s. The regulations changed as from October 2010 & it’s no longer permissible to connect a cons to the main system, it must now be a completely independent heating system. See here;
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/conservatories/

If you go ahead & do it anyway, you will loose the Building Regulations exemption a cons has & it will be required to meet ALL applicable Building Regs; an impossibility due to the way they are designed & constructed. You should also have an externally rated door between the cons & main property or the same applies. It will also be picked up when you come to sell up & it will cause you problems.

 

[bbdimitriu]

Oh, interesting, thanks for the information Richard. That's definitely something worth considering.

In any case, I'm curious if there is indeed a technical problem with having pipes going up and down the house.

 

[bbdimitriu]

Bump

 

[expertgasman]

Oh, interesting, thanks for the information Richard. That's definitely something worth considering.

In any case, I'm curious if there is indeed a technical problem with having pipes going up and down the house.

No. I beleive the 2nd guy is talking nonsense. I most homes the pipes come downstairs to the ground floor rads.

 

[bbdimitriu]

Even for Combi boiler installations? Or are you referring to the pipes that come from the water tanks in the loft with conventional boilers?

 

[flameport]

the pipe circuit goes up from the ground floor to the first floor and then back to the ground floor.

That is exactly what happens in huge numbers of bungalows with concrete floors - the pipes for each rad and the boiler drop down from the loft. It's not a problem there, so no reason why it would be a problem in a house.
The only extra is a drain point under each radiator, so each loop can be drained.

 

[Agile]

But do listen to the advice about the regulatory aspects!

I always wonder why people are so keen to put wet heating into conservatories.

A couple of electric radiant heaters would do.

Tony

 

[Richard C]

You can drag a horse to water

 

[expertgasman]

That is exactly what happens in huge numbers of bungalows with concrete floors -

Precisely

Agile Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:55 pm Post Subject:
But do listen to the advice about the regulatory aspects!

Sometimes I agre with Tony!

I always wonder why people are so keen to put wet heating into conservatories.

True

A couple of electric radiant heaters would do.

No. IF you have clearance, go for a Robinson Willey Warmplan or Baxi Brazilia independat gas heater.
Tony

 

[simond]

In a modern house, the heating will get the house warm very quickly due to good insulation.

Contrary to what conservatory salesmen suggest, they have very poor insulation.

So if you connect your rad to the existing system, it is very likely that your conservatory will be the coldest room in the house.

Another point to take on board is radiator pipe sizing. The pipes to your furthest away radiator will not have been sized with intention of running another unit connected downstream on a long length of small bore.

Therefore if you take the first option, chances rad will only get lukewarm.

 

[JonasX]

Prior to October 2010, it was permissible to connect from the main heating system to heat your conservatory providing the loop was capable of isolation & had independent temperature controls; in it’s simplest form this would have been TRV’s. The regulations changed as from October 2010 & it’s no longer permissible to connect a cons to the main system, it must now be a completely independent heating system. See here;
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/conservatories/

This planning portal document states:
"There should be an independent heating system with separate temperature and on/off controls."

YOU CAN extend the existing heating system into the conservatory. Put the conservatory on its own zone valve and all is fine. It is then:

1. independent;
2. separate temperature controls;
3. separate on/off controls;

Having the conservatory heating using the same heat sources as the main house is irrelevant.

The best is a Myson fan-coil heater on its own zone valve. They come with their own temperature and on-off controls built-in. THey work brilliantly and will heat it up very quickly and when off all heat entering the conservatory is stopped. No heat is stored in concrete floors to be wasted. The Myson only heats the air.

 

[JonasX]

But do listen to the advice about the regulatory aspects!

I always wonder why people are so keen to put wet heating into conservatories.

A couple of electric radiant heaters would do.

They would but take out a mortgage to pay for the electricity to run them.

 

[Richard C]

This planning portal document states: "There should be an independent heating system with separate temperature and on/off controls."

As far as I understand it, what you say used to be the case. The (Oct 10) Building Regs now state “an independent heating system” (as above), rather than the previous wording “a heating system with separate temperature control & isolation; how can teeing off the main heating system be an independent heating system!

The new wording doesn’t make a lot of sense to me but that’s what the regs now say; can you confirm LABC will interpret “separate temperature & independent controls” as an independent heating system? I don’t see how it can be!

 

[JonasX]

This planning portal document states: "There should be an independent heating system with separate temperature and on/off controls."

As far as I understand it, what you say used to be the case. The (Oct 10) Building Regs now state “an independent heating system” (as above), rather than the previous wording “a heating system with separate temperature control & isolation; how can teeing off the main heating system be an independent heating system!

The new wording doesn’t make a lot of sense to me but that’s what the regs now say; can you confirm LABC will interpret “separate temperature & independent controls” as an independent heating system? I don’t see how it can be!

So, using your logic. An electric heating system does the main house. Another does a conservatory. As they are both fed from the same electric supply cable (energy sources) are they both one "system"? No they are not as independently zoned systems, running off one boiler, are not one system either.

What I write is the case. Read the words. Drag them out as I did. It makes perfect sense in the doc. A CH loop is one heating system while another UFH loop off the same boiler is another system. It may also have a DHW loop which is another system. As long as each loop has it own, independent on-off and temp control they are all independent of each other.