Solution to extending CH to conservatory

[Richard C]

So, using your logic. An electric heating system does the main house. Another does a conservatory. As they are both fed from the same electric supply cable (energy sources) are they both one "system"? No they are not as independently zoned systems, running off one boiler, are not one system either.

What I write is the case. Read the words. Drag them out as I did. It makes perfect sense in the doc. A CH loop is one heating system while another UFH loop off the same boiler is another system. It may also have a DHW loop which is another system. As long as each loop has it own, independent on-off and temp control they are all independent of each other.

Oh FFS here we go, another ****ing troll, can I sugest GD might be more suited to you! It’s not my logic, it’s my (& ohtres) understanding of the new regs; a loop off a heating system is not an independent heating system. I didn’t change the wording in the 2010 BR’s, all I said was that the wording has changed which as far as I can see precludes teeing into the main wet system; draw from that what you will but my interpretation is that you now require an independent heating system. We are talking about “wet” systems here; electric heating is a stupid example to use for obvious reasons.

I reiterate, please confirm to me that LABC will accept a tee off a wet system (as they used to) because I don’t really understand the logic of the changed requirements (wording) & would be quiet happy to continue as before; as far as I’m concerned there is nothing wrong with teeing off the mail system as long as it can be independently controlled, isolated &, importantly, drained down.

 

[D_Hailsham]

RTFM - in this case the Building Regulations and Approved Document L1A or B.

Conservatories and porches

3.15 Regulation 9 of the Building Regulations exempts some conservatory and porch extensions from the energy efficiency requirements.

The exemption applies only for conservatories or porches:

• which are at ground level;

• where the floor area is less than 30 m2

• where the existing walls, doors and windows in the part of the dwelling which separates the conservatory are retained or, if removed, replaced by walls, windows and doors which meet the energy efficiency requirements; and

• where the heating system of the dwelling is not extended into the conservatory or porch.

3.16 Where any conservatory or porch does not meet all the requirements in the preceding paragraph, it is not exempt and must comply with the relevant energy efficiency requirements (see paragraphs 4.8 and 4.9 below).

4.8 Where the extension is a conservatory or porch that is not exempt from the energy efficiency requirements (see paragraphs 3.15 and 3.16 above), then reasonable provision would be to provide:

a. Effective thermal separation between the heated area in the existing dwelling, i.e. the walls, doors, and windows between the dwelling and the extension, should be insulated and draught proofed to at least the same extent as in the existing dwelling.

b. Independent temperature and on/off controls to any heating system installed within the extension. Any fixed building service installed within the extension should also conform to the standards set out in paragraphs 4.24 to 4.37.

c. Glazed elements should meet the standards set out in Table 1 and opaque elements should meet the standards set out in Table 2. However, the limitations on total area of windows, roof windows and doors as set out at paragraph 4.2 above do not apply.

4.9 Removing, and not replacing, any or all of the thermal separation between the dwelling and an existing exempt extension, or extending the dwelling’s heating system into the extension, means the extension ceases to be exempt (see paragraphs 3.15 and 3.16 above). This constitutes a change to the building’s energy status (Regulation 4B). In such situations, the extension should be treated as a conventional extension and reasonable provision would be to demonstrate that the extension meets the guidance set out in paragraphs 4.1 to 4.7 above.

So you can put heating in a conservatory, but if you do the conservatory has to comply with all building regs.

 

[DeltaT2]

RTFM - in this case the Building Regulations and Approved Document L1A or B.

Conservatories and porches

3.15 Regulation 9 of the Building Regulations exempts some conservatory and porch extensions from the energy efficiency requirements.

The exemption applies only for conservatories or porches:

• which are at ground level;

• where the floor area is less than 30 m2

• where the existing walls, doors and windows in the part of the dwelling which separates the conservatory are retained or, if removed, replaced by walls, windows and doors which meet the energy efficiency requirements; and

• where the heating system of the dwelling is not extended into the conservatory or porch.

3.16 Where any conservatory or porch does not meet all the requirements in the preceding paragraph, it is not exempt and must comply with the relevant energy efficiency requirements (see paragraphs 4.8 and 4.9 below).

4.8 Where the extension is a conservatory or porch that is not exempt from the energy efficiency requirements (see paragraphs 3.15 and 3.16 above), then reasonable provision would be to provide:

a. Effective thermal separation between the heated area in the existing dwelling, i.e. the walls, doors, and windows between the dwelling and the extension, should be insulated and draught proofed to at least the same extent as in the existing dwelling.

b. Independent temperature and on/off controls to any heating system installed within the extension. Any fixed building service installed within the extension should also conform to the standards set out in paragraphs 4.24 to 4.37.

c. Glazed elements should meet the standards set out in Table 1 and opaque elements should meet the standards set out in Table 2. However, the limitations on total area of windows, roof windows and doors as set out at paragraph 4.2 above do not apply.

4.9 Removing, and not replacing, any or all of the thermal separation between the dwelling and an existing exempt extension, or extending the dwelling’s heating system into the extension, means the extension ceases to be exempt (see paragraphs 3.15 and 3.16 above). This constitutes a change to the building’s energy status (Regulation 4B). In such situations, the extension should be treated as a conventional extension and reasonable provision would be to demonstrate that the extension meets the guidance set out in paragraphs 4.1 to 4.7 above.

So you can put heating in a conservatory, but if you do the conservatory has to comply with all building regs.

That's certainly the case here in Scotland, they are termed as 'Heated Conservatory'.

The OP would be cheaper fitting a a Split Unit AC/Heatpump in his Conservatory. Press a button for AC or heating, 365 days a year/24 hours a day & your main heating system doesn't need to be on. You can get a good Split Unit for around £400 & they're dead easy to DIY.

 

[JonasX]

So, using your logic. An electric heating system does the main house. Another does a conservatory. As they are both fed from the same electric supply cable (energy sources) are they both one "system"? No they are not as independently zoned systems, running off one boiler, are not one system either.

What I write is the case. Read the words. Drag them out as I did. It makes perfect sense in the doc. A CH loop is one heating system while another UFH loop off the same boiler is another system. It may also have a DHW loop which is another system. As long as each loop has it own, independent on-off and temp control they are all independent of each other.

Oh FFS here we go, another **** troll, can I sugest GD might be more suited to you! It’s not my logic, it’s my (& ohtres) understanding of the new regs; a loop off a heating system is not an independent heating system.

It is clear you are irritated because you could not interpret the wording. A loop with independent on-off and temp control is well...er, er, independent. This independent heating having the same heat source as other independent systems is not mentioned, nor is it relevant. The conservatory can be on and the rest of the house off and vise-versa.

One system does not rely on the other.

 

[JonasX]

RTFM - in this case the Building Regulations and Approved Document L1A or B.

Conservatories and porches

3.15 Regulation 9 of the Building Regulations exempts some conservatory and porch extensions from the energy efficiency requirements.

The exemption applies only for conservatories or porches:

• which are at ground level;

• where the floor area is less than 30 m2

• where the existing walls, doors and windows in the part of the dwelling which separates the conservatory are retained or, if removed, replaced by walls, windows and doors which meet the energy efficiency requirements; and

• where the heating system of the dwelling is not extended into the conservatory or porch.

The above in bold is clear. That is where conservatory heating is a part of the house heating with the same on-off and temp control.

3.16 Where any conservatory or porch does not meet all the requirements in the preceding paragraph, it is not exempt and must comply with the relevant energy efficiency requirements (see paragraphs 4.8 and 4.9 below).

4.8 Where the extension is a conservatory or porch that is not exempt from the energy efficiency requirements (see paragraphs 3.15 and 3.16 above), then reasonable provision would be to provide:

a. Effective thermal separation between the heated area in the existing dwelling, i.e. the walls, doors, and windows between the dwelling and the extension, should be insulated and draught proofed to at least the same extent as in the existing dwelling.

b. Independent temperature and on/off controls to any heating system installed within the extension. Any fixed building service installed within the extension should also conform to the standards set out in paragraphs 4.24 to 4.37.

c. Glazed elements should meet the standards set out in Table 1 and opaque elements should meet the standards set out in Table 2. However, the limitations on total area of windows, roof windows and doors as set out at paragraph 4.2 above do not apply.

4.9 Removing, and not replacing, any or all of the thermal separation between the dwelling and an existing exempt extension, or extending the dwelling’s heating system into the extension, means the extension ceases to be exempt (see paragraphs 3.15 and 3.16 above). This constitutes a change to the building’s energy status (Regulation 4B). In such situations, the extension should be treated as a conventional extension and reasonable provision would be to demonstrate that the extension meets the guidance set out in paragraphs 4.1 to 4.7 above.

So you can put heating in a conservatory, but if you do the conservatory has to comply with all building regs.

Thanks for the passage. You got that wrong.

1. If the heating in the conservatory is a part of the existing house system with the same temp and on-off control then you are right, it is not exempt. "extending the dwelling’s heating system into the extension, means the extension ceases to be exempt". The wording is clear, extending the heating system. In other words, making the conservatory heating a part of the main house with the same on-off and temp control and and NOT independent.

2. If it has its own independent on-off and temp control it is exempt.

It is quite clear.

 

[JonasX]

To bottom line:

You can extend the house heating into the conservatory as long as it on its own zoned independent loop with its own on-off control and temp control.

What you are doing is making two independent systems with one heat source - the boiler.

 

[Corgigrouch]

What was it I stated elsewhere?....... Energy is still too cheap, roll on the next round of gas price increases.

 

[Corgigrouch]

That's certainly the case here in Scotland, they are termed as 'Heated Conservatory'.

The OP would be cheaper fitting a a Split Unit AC/Heatpump in his Conservatory. Press a button for AC or heating, 365 days a year/24 hours a day & your main heating system doesn't need to be on. You can get a good Split Unit for around £400 & they're dead easy to DIY.

In the main, I agree but if the pipework is not evacuated correctly then the Heatpump won't live very long, so not really a DIY proposition..

 

[DeltaT2]

That's certainly the case here in Scotland, they are termed as 'Heated Conservatory'.

The OP would be cheaper fitting a a Split Unit AC/Heatpump in his Conservatory. Press a button for AC or heating, 365 days a year/24 hours a day & your main heating system doesn't need to be on. You can get a good Split Unit for around £400 & they're dead easy to DIY.

In the main, I agree but if the pipework is not evacuated correctly then the Heatpump won't live very long, so not really a DIY proposition..

I totally agree regarding the evacuation, but these units are supplied with very simple instructions. One of our 3rd apprentices now fits them for us, with no problems.

With an outdoor temperature of >6C you'll get a COP of about 3 and a 3KW output unit can just be plugged into the nearest socket.

 

[D_Hailsham]

where the heating system of the dwelling is not extended into the conservatory or porch.

The above in bold is clear. That is where conservatory heating is a part of the house heating with the same on-off and temp control.

It doesn't say anything about same controls - that's your interpretation!

If the heating in the conservatory is a part of the existing house system with the same temp and on-off control then you are right, it is not exempt.

Your words - not in the regulations!

"extending the dwelling’s heating system into the extension, means the extension ceases to be exempt". The wording is clear, extending the heating system. In other words, making the conservatory heating a part of the main house with the same on-off and temp control and NOT independent.

Where do you get this idea from?

If it has its own independent on-off and temp control it is exempt.

This is getting boring!!

 

[DeltaT2]

where the heating system of the dwelling is not extended into the conservatory or porch.

The above in bold is clear. That is where conservatory heating is a part of the house heating with the same on-off and temp control.

It doesn't say anything about same controls - that's your interpretation!

If the heating in the conservatory is a part of the existing house system with the same temp and on-off control then you are right, it is not exempt.

Your words - not in the regulations!

"extending the dwelling’s heating system into the extension, means the extension ceases to be exempt". The wording is clear, extending the heating system. In other words, making the conservatory heating a part of the main house with the same on-off and temp control and NOT independent.

Where do you get this idea from?

If it has its own independent on-off and temp control it is exempt.

This is getting boring!!

Ignore him DH, he's on medication, he's got to be!! Who posts on any forum & replies to themselves?? And yes, he's very boring.

 

[Corgigrouch]

Mr Hailsham, Sadly there are folk out there with too much money and too few braincells... There is no point in entering discussion with them, they will do as they wish and then bleat about the cost of heating... I laugh in their general direction.

 

[JonasX]

where the heating system of the dwelling is not extended into the conservatory or porch.

The above in bold is clear. That is where conservatory heating is a part of the house heating with the same on-off and temp control.

It doesn't say anything about same controls - that's your interpretation!

Again for you:
where the heating system of the dwelling is not extended into the conservatory or porch

Extending the heating system of the house, treating the conservatory like one of the rooms in the house. It is clear.

If the heating in the conservatory is a part of the existing house system with the same temp and on-off control then you are right, it is not exempt.

Your words - not in the regulations!

"extending the dwelling’s heating system into the extension, means the extension ceases to be exempt". The wording is clear, extending the heating system. In other words, making the conservatory heating a part of the main house with the same on-off and temp control and NOT independent.

Where do you get this idea from?

From reading the words. Try it. I even highlighted them to aid comprehension. They are on about extending the existing house heating system into the conservatory making the conservatory just like one of the bedrooms. IT IS CLEAR

If it has its own independent on-off and temp control it is exempt.

This is getting boring!!

It would be as you can't comprehend simple English. Also should I take seriously someone who said condensing boilers will not condense heating a thermal store because it is all run at 80C? baffling!

 

[JonasX]

What most cannot figure out is what is an independent "system". You can have many heating systems all accessing the same heat source. These systems can be zoned loops with full independent control of on-off and temperature. You see this in hospitals where they have a boiler house and pipe heated water to separate buildings which have their own independent heating systems.

Because these loops share the same transfer fluid, (water) and heat source (boiler), does not mean they are not independent systems.

Putting a plate heat X on the zone even isolates the transfer fluid (water)

 

[D_Hailsham]

where the heating system of the dwelling is not extended into the conservatory or porch

Extending the heating system of the house, treating the conservatory like one of the rooms in the house.

So you have a house which is heated by storage heaters in every room. You build a conservatory and install a storage heater in it.

Have you "extended the heating system", or is each storage rad an individual heating system?