Soundproofing old terraced house, need help!!!

[wobblybox]

Hi all, I have a terraced house built around 1900. On one side I have a young family and the noise is terrible. The main problem is my bedroom all the sound from neighbours carries through.

I have installed a wood stud frame and filled it with rockwool then covered in kingspan foam/plasterboard, skimmed etc on the walls either side of the chimney breast. I thought the chimney would be thicker and wouldn't carry as much sound. I f i put my ear the stud wall which is joined to the party wall approx 8 feet from party wall I can hear next door talking clearly so the sound is travelling along the stud.

The above has made no difference. The house has been extended and in the extension there is no noise at all. Where the extension starts there is approx 8 inches difference in the wall thickness.

I think my options are completely sound proof the whole room, including floors and ceiling with kingspan and rockwool OR build a new cavity with breezeblock from the floor in the livingroom right up to the roof. I have the room to do this.

Please help I am at the end of my rope!! Cost isn't really a worry as long as the job is done right

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Are the studs in any way joined to the existing wall, ie is there an air gap?

 

[nigelm]

We had a similar problem.

As I understand it the number one issue is gaps between the two houses, usually in the loft area (as in my case), other examples would be arround joists where they are fixed into walls etc.

Adding an additional layer of plasterboard to the walls can also be suprisingly effective as plasterboard is relativly dense.

Good luck.

 

[wobblybox]

Are the studs in any way joined to the existing wall, ie is there an air gap?

No there is an air gap of approx 30mm, when the joiner was doin the work he did not seal the timber frame and I noiced that he did not cut the skirting board away he just nailed the stud over it. This obviously left a gap which I stuffed with rockwool.

 

[wobblybox]

We had a similar problem.

As I understand it the number one issue is gaps between the two houses, usually in the loft area (as in my case), other examples would be arround joists where they are fixed into walls etc.

Adding an additional layer of plasterboard to the walls can also be suprisingly effective as plasterboard is relativly dense.

Good luck.

I thought the same, thats why im thinking of adding a block cavity from the groundfloor right up to the roof. Im not sure if this can be done. I'm not worried about losing space and in my mind is the best solution as the beams which I believe may run right through into next door can be cut.

In saying that ive been wrong before!!

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

We had a similar problem.

As I understand it the number one issue is gaps between the two houses, usually in the loft area (as in my case), other examples would be arround joists where they are fixed into walls etc.

Adding an additional layer of plasterboard to the walls can also be suprisingly effective as plasterboard is relativly dense.

Good luck.

I thought the same, thats why im thinking of adding a block cavity from the groundfloor right up to the roof. Im not sure if this can be done. I'm not worried about losing space and in my mind is the best solution as the beams which I believe may run right through into next door can be cut.

In saying that ive been wrong before!!

Building a new skin of block and having a continuous open cavity from the ground up into the roof void and cutting the joists is undoubtedly an effective method although the expense, hassle and mess may be judged too great. Not forgetting that the new blockwork wall ought to be tied to the party wall anyway for structural stability with simple wire ties, an additional skin of block will undoubtedly allow less sound transmission than the solid party wall as you have now. A foundation may also be required at ground level.

There are numurous threads on this forum for carrying out this kind of project and even more solutions available with not one single method seemingly coming out best eg //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=86150&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

[wobblybox]

Makes very interesting reading freddy thank you for the link, as I see it the block cavity is the ultimate solution as the others have varying degrees of success.

I like the house and the area is fantastic. I cant sell due to prices and the flooded market so I really dont mind sorting the problem out. As I type a recommended builder is winging his way here to quote on the cavity theory.

Further update will follow.

 

[jeds]

Additional studwork against old solid walls is a standard method and is usually very effective. As FMT says though, the studs and the rockwool musn't touch the wall and the studwork should be finished with 2 layers of 15mm acoustic board. Standard board is no good - it must be acoustic board.

The other point I would make is that I have only ever had one problem with sound testing separating walls and that was due to a chimney breast which seemed to transfer sound like an amplifier. So I'd have another look at that if I were you.

 

[wobblybox]

Additional studwork against old solid walls is a standard method and is usually very effective. As FMT says though, the studs and the rockwool musn't touch the wall and the studwork should be finished with 2 layers of 15mm acoustic board. Standard board is no good - it must be acoustic board.

The other point I would make is that I have only ever had one problem with sound testing separating walls and that was due to a chimney breast which seemed to transfer sound like an amplifier. So I'd have another look at that if I were you.

There is a definite difference where the studding etc has been installed but im at the stage now were I need a definite resolution. The noise that is travelling through the stud wall which is connected to the brick party wall is horrific!! Its hard to explain but the stud wall divides my room from the stairs and is joined to party wall, when I put my ear to the stud wall at the door which is approx 10 feet away from party wall I can hear speech clearly at talking level.

It would appear that the stud wall need to be seperated from the party wall somehow.

I have been quoted £1800.00 to build a solid block cavity from ground level right up through the house to the roof peak. This also includes cutting the joists etc which run via my house to next door thus allowing total seperation and a good cavity.

In the extension part of the house there is no noise at all, It is apparent the walls are at least 8 inches thicker. I cant sell the house due to the current market and if I have anymore sleepless nights im gonna crack up aaaaaargh!!!

 

[joe-90]

Just use ear plugs.

Once the sound vibrations get into the house you can't get them out no matter what you do. Don't you remember those films like Pappillon where they tap on the pipes to talk to each other? Plus you have become hyper sensitive to the problem so you will always hear the noise.

Ear plugs are the way to go.

 

[wobblybox]

How right you are!! I am totally attuned to noise from neighbours, im gonna end up on valium and or prozac. If it wasn't me it would be funny!!.

Thats why I believe the block cavity and cutting all beams joining the houses will definitely kill the sound transmission???? Surely the noise can't jump an air gap penetrate a breezeblock cavity and enter my lugs??

Yes earplugs do help but the are annoying and the noise transmission is two way if you get my meaning im a young fella and when entertaining the girls you cant help but be paranoid!! I would love to be able to measure the sound levels because it truly is horrific

 

[alittlerespect]

Your most likely problem is that the new stud wall was screwed or nailed to the surrounding surfaces, whereas what you should have done is got hold of some regupole resilient matting, which you will need to stick on with a recommended adhesive to the perimeter line of the studwork, then stick the outerframe of the studwork to the regupole in a similar manner, then you can continue by fixing the studs inside the framework with screws so long as you do not break into the resilient layer. Then finish with some high density sound insulation between the studs and finish off with British Gyspum 'sounblock' plasterboard.

The form of construction you have used is 'lightweight' and it will only reduce high frequency noise levels, you will also need to use a high density acoustic insulation between the studs not fibreglass. Do an internet search on sound absorption/insulation and you should find further detailed information.

One final comment, you should remove the skirting boards and refit once the new wall is constructed.

Thats the basic's, you may wish to consider cutting back the floor and ceiling line if it is touching the party wall, as this will provide a path for sound to travel along - sound is much like water, it will look for the path of least resistance - if nothing else the above will give you better sound insulation performance than you currently have - just a case of 'do you bite the bullet and undo all that has gone before!'

Wish you the best of luck

Regards

 

[joe-90]

Thats why I believe the block cavity and cutting all beams joining the houses will definitely kill the sound transmission???? Surely the noise can't jump an air gap penetrate a breezeblock cavity and enter my lugs??

I once lived in a terrace house where the house next door was built 20 years after mine. There was an air gap of about 3 inches between them.

So that was 2 nine inch walls separated by a complete air gap.

Could I still hear them? You bet. Running up and down stairs, talking and moaning. The reason? It's all to do with resonance. Two containers next to each other will resonate in sympathy - and your similar sized rooms will do just the same. Sorry - but you gotta move.

 

[pedrodoghater]

I have a similar problem : I live in a 1930's terraced house and suffer from noise of voices and impact sound from next door's kitchen.
I have resolved the problem of hearing neighbours voices by screwing 50mm wooden battons to the walls and adding steel resilient bars and then multiple layers of plasterboard with green glue sandwiched in between the plasterboard.

The impact noise is harder to deal with though. I realised that much of it was coming from the chimney breast. Like you, I assumed that it was too thick to let noise through but I was wrong. I have now put Phonewell, a product made with sand, on the chimney breast with resilient bars and as a result can hear nothing- and I do mean nothing at all, from the chimney breast.
However, I can still hear the impact noise further along the wall where I used six layers of plasterboard, green glue and resilient bars.

I am now concerned about the amount of weight I am adding to the wall and would appreciate comments : would adding another layer of phonewell weighing about about 70kg be OK?

 

[Braidenacoustics]

Hi wobblybox,

Still having sound insulation problems?? If so then maybe I can help as I am an acoustic consultant. I will give an overview of how sound is transmitted and then general solutions.

Basically sound in transmitted in 2 ways:

Airborne sound
Structure borne sound

Both of these transmission paths are usually tested in new builds/conversions under Building Regs Part E. The most difficult transmission path to treat is structure borne sound which is fairly self explanatory where the sound path is via connecting building materials. This is why the rather excessive method of the bottom floor to roof of a separate, unconnected skim is likely to work. But this is a drastic and and costly measure. Essentially, structural sound transmission paths must be separated with an air gap or if this is not possible, some sort of 'resilient layer'. A resilient layer usually comprised of a dense rubber or foam type material which is commonplace when specifying 'floating floor' or resilient bars when dealing with ceilings. Essentially the resilient layer absorbs the vibrations. Similar products exist for walls.

In your case I would guess that the problem is structure borne noise where the stud wall is connected to the existing walls. Therefore it must be established that the sound transmission path is either structure or air borne or both (most probably both but maybe predominantly structure borne). Therefore it doesn't matter how thick the partition wall is, if the sound is travelling along existing walls then the problems still exists. This is the same as the sound travelling down pipes as previously mentioned. However this problem can be fixed by isolating problem areas (therefore Joe-90 is wrong) although without seeing drawings and layouts is difficult for me to give an accurate solution.

Cheers,

John