Split existing ring main

[Rhodes7373]

Hey,

We live in a 3 bed house where all the sockets upstairs and downstairs are on one circuit.
I've recently renovated the bathroom and switched from an electric shower to it running of the combi.
So I now have a spare shower cable, directly below the bathroom is the kitchen, I can see that the wiring from the kitchen goes up the wall and into the ceiling (so look accessible).

Is it possible to create a new ring main, from the shower cable just for the kitchen sockets?
Is it a major job ?

Thanks!

 

[JohnW2]

.... So I now have a spare shower cable, directly below the bathroom is the kitchen, I can see that the wiring from the kitchen goes up the wall and into the ceiling (so look accessible). Is it possible to create a new ring main, from the shower cable just for the kitchen sockets? Is it a major job ?

It could, in theory, certainly be done. What you ended up with would not, strictly speaking, be a 'ring circuit' but, rather a 'lollipop' circuit (the shower cable being the 'stick' of the lollipop) - although that, in itself, would not be a problem.

However, at least a couple of points ...

1... What sort of Consumer Unit / Fuse Box do you have, and does it provide RCD protection (particularly to the shower circuit). What you would be creating would probably be regarded as a 'new circuit' and, as such, all the sockets would have to be RCD protected. Similarly, if any of the cables concerned are 'buried in walls', they would probably now also require RCD protection.

2... Are you sure that you and/or a subsequent occupier will not want an electric shower in the future?

Depending largely on the answer to (1) above, from what you've said it might not be too major a job.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Is it possible to create a new ring main, from the shower cable just for the kitchen sockets?
Is it a major job ?

Thanks!

Doable, but would involve an awful lot of joints, to divert existing cables. If you imagine the circuit as a ring, where first it goes around the house, first to an upstairs socket, then the next to a downstairs socket, then again to an upstairs socket. Spitting the circuit would involve three joints, without disturbing the wall plaster, for each socket removed from the existing ring - or one joint, if one circuit is wired from scratch.

 

[JohnW2]

Doable, but would involve an awful lot of joints, to divert existing cables. If you imagine the circuit as a ring, where first it goes around the house, first to an upstairs socket, then the next to a downstairs socket, then again to an upstairs socket. Spitting the circuit would involve three joints, without disturbing the wall plaster, for each socket removed from the existing ring - or one joint, if one circuit is wired from scratch.

As I said, on the basis of what the OP said it might not be all that major a job, given that he said ...

So I now have a spare shower cable, directly below the bathroom is the kitchen, I can see that the wiring from the kitchen goes up the wall and into the ceiling (so look accessible). Is it possible to create a new ring main, from the shower cable just for the kitchen sockets?

As I've said, given that it would probably be regarded as a 'new circuit' (which would probably require both the kitchen sockets and buried cables to be RCD protected) an important question (which could impact on the size of the job - particularly if one had to consider a CU replacement) is whether the shower circuit is (or could be) RCD protected.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

As I said, on the basis of what the OP said it might not be all that major a job, given that he said ...
As I've said, given that it would probably be regarded as a 'new circuit' (which would probably require both the kitchen sockets and buried cables to be RCD protected) an important question (which could impact on the size of the job - particularly if one had to consider a CU replacement) is whether the shower circuit is (or could be) RCD protected.

Kind Regards, John

Yes, I fully understood that and the new source for the new ring and as I said, basically 3 joints per socket of each of L+N+E.

 

[EFLImpudence]

If there are no problems at the moment; why bother?

If bothering; why a ring if there is a 6mm² (or 10mm²) cable going to the kitchen?

 

[Rhodes7373]

The shower cable is rcd protected.

The kitchen is at the end of the house so I'm guessing that finding the start and the end of the existing ring shouldn't be that bad!?

The idea to break it up was just purely down to load as currently it does trip quite a bit.... We also have or the usual stuff running off it, TVs, tumble dryer washing machine, combi, laptops, etc

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

The kitchen is at the end of the house so I'm guessing that finding the start and the end of the existing ring shouldn't be that bad!?

That fact alone, might make splitting it much easier and possibly reduce the number of joints needed. Your starting point, is to trace the route of the ring.

 

[JohnW2]

If there are no problems at the moment; why bother?

That's a good question, although some would presumably argue that having the sockets in a house 'separated' into more than one circuit was, per se, 'desirable' ... and I suppose that a lot depends on the potential extent of the loads on the kitchen sockets.

If bothering; why a ring if there is a 6mm² (or 10mm²) cable going to the kitchen?

Maybe because the wiring between the kitchen sockets will currently probably be in 2.5mm² cable, so that the MCB (or fuse!) protecting the 'shower' cable would presumably have to be reduced to a max of 25A, maybe less (unless one was prepared to do a lot more re-wiring)?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

The idea to break it up was just purely down to load as currently it does trip quite a bit....

Fair enough.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Maybe because the wiring between the kitchen sockets will currently probably be in 2.5mm² cable,

Could be. I might have misunderstood -

Is it possible to create a new ring main, from the shower cable just for the kitchen sockets?

 

[JohnW2]

Could be. I might have misunderstood -

Ah - maybe it is I who misunderstood - one of us clearly did!

My assumption was that there must already be sockets in the kitchen and, since there is currently just one ring circuit for the whole house, they are on the same ring circuit as everything else - and that what the OP wanted to do was 'separate off' the part of the ring in the kitchen and feed just that bit (as a lollipop circuit) from the ex-shower cable.

However, I suppose you might be right that he was talking about getting rid of all the current wiring of kitchen sockets and replacing it all with a 'new' ring/lollipop circuit.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Rhodes7373]

Thanks all, think I'll start getting some quotes for the work