Spot the problem?

[DJM]

I know you guys like pics.
Whilst repairing some blown plaster found this.

A bit more investigation revealed this

and this

Worrying thing is that these are the switch and 2 way cables for landing and hall and have been in daily use. We have been living in the house for more than 10 years and this work was done by approved builders and sparks contracted by the previous owners who had proper cetification for it. Whats worse is that the contractor had gone to the effort and (albeit small) additional cost of using T+E and 3 core+E, but simply snipped the cpc back without connecting it.

I think I can safely say replacement comes under the damaged cable section lol.

 

[ericmark]

In theory of course every 10 years you should have an inspection and test done so any lack of earth should have been found then?

Sorry to say some people before Part P did some shocking work as they thought they could never be caught and I have found where something was tripping protective device and the foot ball was on so electrician disconnected the earth. Every intention of returning next day but boss re-directed him so it was not found until another fault. Phones tripping out happened and I was sent to find out why. (It was the screws not tight in consumer unit had come populated and electrician had not checked all screws) but while looking I found earth off and later tattled electrician. He was quite worried but still did not make it right.

Also 10 years ago anyone could claim to be an electrician and get employed on building sites. If you worked fast that was all that was required.

30 years ago it was different we had unions with teeth and they could and would withdraw members cards for bad workmanship but when unions lost the power to operate closed shops so they also lost the power to regulate the trade.

So we now have returned to closed shop but instead of calling the organisation a union it is called a competent person scheme but same thing really. (Part P)

 

[bernardgreen]

Sorry Eric but sometimes the unions acted to defend the poor workman from being sacked. It may not have happened so much in the electrical installation trade but in other trades it did happen.

Getting a genuine accurate bad reputation was possible 30 years ago based on word of mouth and those people then did not get work. The law today seems to prevent accurate but adverse word of mouth information being used to adjust a person's reputation.

"" I have the qualification so you cannot say my work fails to meet the standard unless you can also prove it "" If the installation passes the tests all is said to be OK. but unless the work is fully inspected the presence of bad workmanship will go undetected.

 

[DJM]

I was commenting on the sheer stupidity more than anything else. That and the fact I know you guys like pictures of the good, the bad and the ugly.
Whoever did this procured the correct cables, put them in the safe zones, clipped cables to joists, used quality fittings etc, but then blew all the good work by snipping the cpc and putting a nail and screws through the cables they had just installed a few hours/days earlier.

We have obviously lived charmed lives

 

[ban-all-sheds]

30 years ago it was different we had unions with teeth and they could and would withdraw members cards for bad workmanship

Yes, and they could and did cooperate with employers to blacklist people who they didn't like.

And listening to my old Dad's first-hand stories from 40-odd years in the printing trade, they also perpetuated some shocking abuses of power - deliberate overmanning, institutionalised absenteeism etc. There were lots of places where if everyone on the payroll turned up when they were supposed to there'd be no room for them all.

So we now have returned to closed shop but instead of calling the organisation a union it is called a competent person scheme but same thing really. (Part P)

Not really.

Sorry Eric but sometimes the unions acted to defend the poor workman from being sacked. It may not have happened so much in the electrical installation trade but in other trades it did happen.

Tell that to the electricians whose interests have been "protected" by Amicus at projects such as Wembley Stadium and Manchester Piccadilly Gardens....

 

[russyboy]

CSCS - PART P 17TH EDITION regs regs regs !!!!

does this say that this country the uk has the most safe working systems in place for sparks??/

does any other country heve the same regs as we do??

just of interest really.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

does this say that this country the uk has the most safe working systems in place for sparks??/

No, of course not.

does any other country heve the same regs as we do??

The same?

No - how could they, when our regulations are either British Standards, or UK legislation?

As good?

Yes.

 

[ericmark]

does this say that this country the uk has the most safe working systems in place for sparks??/

No, of course not.

does any other country heve the same regs as we do??

The same?

No - how could they, when our regulations are either British Standards, or UK legislation?

As good?

Yes.

Falklands
St Helena
Assassination Islands
The list goes on I think even Hong Kong still uses our regs even though no longer British

 

[Stoday]

And listening to my old Dad's first-hand stories from 40-odd years in the printing trade, they also perpetuated some shocking abuses of power - deliberate overmanning, institutionalised absenteeism etc. There were lots of places where if everyone on the payroll turned up when they were supposed to there'd be no room for them all.

In India the job belongs to the family, not the electricity board. So when a chap retired, the family expected to fill it.

This was sorted out when I was there by paying these useless employees and telling them to stay at home. That was not good enough. They wanted the status of being properly employed. I don't know how that finished up. I was only there as a consultant on engineering economics.

 

[ericmark]

It of course worked both ways. My father came home from the war and walked straight into a job. Dilutees were forced to relinquish their jobs if a time served tradesmen wanted it so some poor guy had to give up being a fitter as my dad wanted the job.

I am sure there are many tradesmen who wish they could still do that and say "He has only done a 12 week course I want that job".

In a way it does! I firm finds a guy who has a 2391 and wants his skills and employs him then once they are sure he fits the bill makes some less qualified guy redundant. And there are no rules to stop it. As long as they employ then make redundant and not make redundant then employ.

However firms may be able to decide who can and who can't do the job but the private house holder has a much harder time. They look through Yellow pages with a pin and they have little or no way to work out if he can do the job or not.

Any system will have flaws but question is does the Part P registered label tell you any more about the guys skills than a Union card, JIB card or any of the other accreditation method.

Answer of course no. Anyone can still become an electrician working for a large firm with very little knowledge as the person is not registered like with Gas Safe but the firm is registered so as long as one guy knows his stuff you can have a load more with no idea.

Yes for sole trader Part P means something but not for larger firms. It has sorted out the sole traders but not the larger firms and it seems Joe public is looser yet again.