Ssssssshhhhhh, don't mention Reform.

[motorbiking]

Please explain where and why.

the pay a person gets depends on two factors.

1) the number of people able to do the job
2) the value the job delivers (not always monetary )

If the job is important and there aren't enough people to do it, the pay goes up to attract more people.

People are not paid less so that others can be paid more. CEOs are CEOs earning CEO salaries because of 1 & 2.

 

[Mottie]

what does that have to do with this:

“So you admit that there are jobs which are too low paid and businesses get away with it”

No. I'm not stupid to know that some people get paid more than others to do a job. If there’s not many people that can do those jobs, it costs more. What don’t you understand about that? Did you get paid more money when you were working than the person who (didn't) put the tomatoes on the shelf at your local supermarket? Why was tgat? Could they do your job? Could you do theirs?

 

[Notch7]

Nope

let’s go through this:

1) you said people should improve their skills if they want to be paid more

2) So if that happens then those essential low paid jobs won’t get staff…because they keep leaving as per 1)

3) you admit that businesses would then have to pay a more decent wage…..ergo you want them to be paid more.

 

[motorbiking]

let’s go through this:

1) you said people should improve their skills if they want to be paid more

2) So if that happens then those essential low paid jobs won’t get staff…because they keep leaving as per 1)

3) you admit that businesses would then have to pay a more decent wage…..ergo you want them to be paid more.

You ignore the need for the business to innovate.

If the business cannot get the people it needs for the money it wants to pay, it either innovates or pays.

 

[Notch7]

the pay a person gets depends on two factors.

1) the number of people able to do the job
2) the value the job delivers (not always monetary )

If the job is important and there aren't enough people to do it, the pay goes up to attract more people

You ignore the fact that businesses lobby govt to lower regulations allowing them to pay lower wages and exploit people.

If the job is important and there aren't enough people to do it, the pay goes up to attract more people

wages can’t be based purely on supply and demand.

That leads to worker exploitation

That’s why we need unions

CEOs are CEOs earning CEO salaries because of 1 & 2.

Wrong

CEOs were earning 20x the lowest paid worker, now they are earning 200x the lowest paid worker.

People are not paid less so that others can be paid more

Yes they are.

Jeff Bezos is a multi billionaire because he exploits workers

What do you think big business gives so much money to right wing political parties……to pressure them to lower regulations so they can exploit workers.

 

[Notch7]

You ignore the need for the business to innovate.

If the business cannot get the people it needs for the money it wants to pay, it either innovates or pays.

Innovation is not relevant in many sectors.

I’d like see your solution to innovating care sector work……robots to wash a frail elderly person with dementia.

 

[motorbiking]

You ignore the fact that businesses lobby govt to lower regulations allowing them to pay lower wages and exploit people.


wages can’t be based purely on supply and demand.

That leads to worker exploitation

That’s why we need unions



Wrong

CEOs were earning 20x the lowest paid worker, now they are earning 200x the lowest paid worker.


Yes they are.

Jeff Bezos is a multi billionaire because he exploits workers

What do you think big business gives so much money to right wing political parties……to pressure them to lower regulations so they can exploit workers.

Bezos is a billionaire because he had an idea to sell books online and pay people commission for setting up "book shops" on their websites. Meanwhile other book shops stocked books and waited for people to buy them. Later he expanded to other products. His business grew and grew, with many people selling goods without even touching them. Eventually he needed many 100s of servers to run his business so he thought maybe I can sell those too.

He is not a billionaire because he rounded up 1000s of people and forced them to work for low pay.

 

[motorbiking]

Innovation is not relevant in many sectors.

I’d like see your solution to innovating care sector work……robots to wash a frail elderly person with dementia.

there have been 100s over recent years.

 

[Lirefighter]

So you admit that there are jobs which are too low paid and businesses get away with it

By the way you haven’t addressed these points:

1) You haven’t addressed the fact that wealth inequality has increased massively in the last 50 odd years.
In the 1960s and 1970s the low paid were able to live on their wages…..but they can’t now.

2) During the austerity years 2010 to 2020 low paid wages stagnated whilst the top earners massively increased their wealth

3) During pandemic in 2020 and the cost of living crisis after…..the wealthiest massively increased their wealth.

4) U.K. and USA have far higher levels of wealth inequality than most other similar Western economies, such as those in Europe.

5) in 1960 a CEO earned around 20x the lowest paid workers, now that ratio is 200x

Actual Poverty was at far greater levels back in the 70s compared to today.
Why do you care what people who are more successful than you earn?

 

[MNW67]

So you admit that there are jobs which are too low paid and businesses get away with it

By the way you haven’t addressed these points:

1) You haven’t addressed the fact that wealth inequality has increased massively in the last 50 odd years.
In the 1960s and 1970s the low paid were able to live on their wages…..but they can’t now.

2) During the austerity years 2010 to 2020 low paid wages stagnated whilst the top earners massively increased their wealth

3) During pandemic in 2020 and the cost of living crisis after…..the wealthiest massively increased their wealth.

4) U.K. and USA have far higher levels of wealth inequality than most other similar Western economies, such as those in Europe.

5) in 1960 a CEO earned around 20x the lowest paid workers, now that ratio is 200x

You seem like a successful guy. Why are you so bothered about people who earn less than you. Is it a personality defect

 

[Notch7]

No. I'm not stupid to know that some people get paid more than others to do a job

I never said some people shouldn’t get paid more than others to get a job.

So why are you arguing a point not mentioned…is it because you are stupid?

If there’s not many people that can do those jobs, it costs more. What don’t you understand about that?

Not relevant

What don’t you understand about that?

I am not talking about there being low paid jobs and high paid jobs.
I am talking about the difference between the 2, which has been getting greater for many years.

And this has been happening in parallel with houses being less affordable to buy and less affordable to rent.

Over the last 50+ years wages for ordinary workers relative to costs have gone down whilst wages of the highest earners and the assets of the richest has gone up massively.

Why has income inequality increased so much?


I am not arguing about so,e

 

[Notch7]

Actual Poverty was at far greater levels back in the 70s compared to today.

“current levels of poverty are around 50% higher than they were in the 1970s.”

UK Poverty 2024: The essential guide to understanding poverty in the UK

The essential guide to understanding poverty in the UK

www.jrf.org.uk

 

[Lirefighter]

“current levels of poverty are around 50% higher than they were in the 1970s.”

UK Poverty 2024: The essential guide to understanding poverty in the UK

The essential guide to understanding poverty in the UK

www.jrf.org.uk

Nonsense.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

You seem like a successful guy. Why are you so bothered about people who earn less than you. Is it a personality defect

I don't think it's about being paid more, or less than anybody else.

It's about people not being able to live on full time wages, and business being subsidised by all taxpayers to keep this going.

Who pays for the "top up" benefits that some full time workers need, just to live ?

 

[Lirefighter]

You seem like a successful guy. Why are you so bothered about people who earn less than you. Is it a personality defect

I agree, I think everything he spouts is a load of bolloks too.