Steel pipes

[ChrisR]

You would also know that corrosion in pipework is not linear but concentrated in small areas where micro impurities, physical stresses or electrolytic action occur. The mode and location of pipe failure cannot therefore be assessed accurately as you seem to expect.

I'm aware of these facts.

If you had been, you wouldn't ask such daft questions, and make incorrect assertions, repeatedly, and after you've been corrected.

But you can check to see if there's a pre-existing problem using a pressure test.

Nonsense! A pressure test would tell you if the system were already leaking, but not how much, (most systems leak a little), and absolutely nothing about what would happen it the system were powerflushed with chemicals.

I've asked you, however, to provide some information as to the risk of failure e.g. 10% fail in 5 years, 30% in 15 years, 50% in 25 years, 90% in 50 years etc. so that I can assess the risk.

Buy into a religion and pray!! How do you think anyone can give you a figure for ANY system let alone YOURS?? 50 years!!? Ask your Polish chap what he thinks. Let me guess he will say "No problem".

It's easy to keep saying "no problem" to you, that's what you want to be told. YOUR problem is that you don't want to hear warnings from people who do, really, know better and more than you do. And they have learned to be extra careful with people, like you, who don't listen to what they are told, and forget what they choose to when a problem appears later.

 

[Nige F]

I smell a Troll (is that the correct term for a Web wind up?)...I think the giveaway was the naming of the Polish Plumber .or maybe it was a generic Polish name. Still, I`m unbothered

 

[jdey]

Ah, I see making racist remarks about Eastern Europeans can also be added to the list of characteristics of cowboy plumbers.

Smell the roses, guys, and embrace globalisation. Dinosaurs like yourselves who treat customers with contempt, refuse to answer even the most basic questions etc. are on your way out. This polish guy was a pleasure to speak to. He listened to what I was asking for without sucking through his teeth, condemning everything, saying that'll cost ya mate etc.

I read that UK plumbers earned £60k a year in the media, and then did some research and discovered the average was £24k. I almost felt sorry for you guys, but then I realised you're all full of sh*t.

 

[littleroy]

If your so bloody clever why not pop down to your local Brandons tool hire and hire the powerflush machine and do the job yourself for a fraction of the cost? .......no? didnt think you would.
Like most who have commented i could do without know-all smart arse individuals like your good self as a potential customer......i would rather take my pump pliers and pluck out my wisdom teeth, it would be alot less painfull than listening to your deluded unfounded misconceptions.
No doubt your eastern european friend was polite, helpful and charming into the bargain?.............mmmm thought so.
In 2 or so years time he will be offski back to Polski with enough money to buy his big new house. Gaurantee? Think about it.

p.s. Do you get out into the real world very often?

 

[littleroy]

P.S. A power flush works on the volume of water it pushes around the sytem ie: flow rate, to dislodge and suspend any contaminants in the system so they are suspended in the aqueous medium and drawn off to be dumped, not just blasted through at high pressure.

 

[jdey]

Oh dear, I seem to have upset little Roy. Sorry mate, but I've put up with a tirade of abuse from you lot on here for the last week, and have noted that just about every other diyer gets a similar level of sarcastic remarks and non-answers.

Anyway, I've agreed with Mr Polski to source my own equipment (to save on costs). As I don't need a condensing boiler , this seems like a veritable bargain.
http://www.heatandplumb.co.uk/acatalog/Combi_Boiler_Central_Heating_Pack_24Kw.html

The more I think about the British quoters I've had around my house, the more my blood boils. I feel like getting some more around and kicking their ass. If you check out the example of Victorian mid-terrace in Appendix D of condensing boiler assessment guidelines my house exactly matches the description, yet only 1 of the 3 British quoters I had, had it on him and he hadn't read it properly. He tried to claim that because I had a boiler behind a radiator rather than a back boiler, it was slightly different from the example. What a pile of claptrap, the extra 200 points is because the lowest cost locations are all within 1.5m of a boundary. Other classics that he came out with were it's illegal to site a boiler in the bathroom, even though said example shows it as a perfectly valid site. You really couldn't make up the verbal diarrhoea that you guys come out with and then claim it's expertise. No doubt a Sainsbury's till worker has a C&G in food, but they still let me choose my own groceries.

Not forgetting the written quote that I received last night from the original quoter - £4900 for a complete new central heating system, to include, drum roll, a powerflush. What's that for? to clean the dust from the new pipes? lol.

 

[croydoncorgi]

Read carefully, you pillock (because this is the last help you'll ever get from me).

You have an OLD heating system that was a bit cheap and nasty to start with.

I doubt you've ever spent much on servicing and maintenance since you bought it (especially bearing in mind the conditions you expect people to work under!) So think of your overall investment in heating as small or very small!

You need a NEW system and if you get something bodged together including old steel pipes and whatever other debris from the old system you care to identify, then that is up to you, and YOUR problem if it later falls apart and floods the place.

If you don't like the wording of the garbage emanating from the Office of the Deputy PM (actually, quite a lot of people don't), then take it up with John Prescott.

And if you think a bit more carefully about what YOU actually want to achieve, instead of expecting others to think for you and then slagging them off because you don't like their answers, you might come up with a design that works, INCLUDING a condensing boiler and the other bits you need to BUY (ie. using MONEY) to make a serviceable system.

Now go away and stop contaminating this forum unless you are prepared to accept reasonable advice you're given.

 

[jdey]

Thanks for re-inforcing my view of British plumbers, Croydonpoodle.

Unlike the UK quoters, I possess & can read the guidelines emanating from Prescott's asshole. I'm one of the few who love 'em cos I don't need a condensing boiler, which means I don't need any of your overpriced services.
Read Appendix D, it's about 2 pages from the back of the guidelines, for the educationally subnormal i.e. most plumbers.

The 3rd quoter told me that, ironically, Servowarms were quite expensive at the time. Another little lie from an overpriced, redundant UK plumber

 

[Nige F]

Sarcastic remarks and non answers are FREE If you paid me for advice I would brown nose you because there would be ££@ the end I learned that in Sainsburys from the manager Mr. Smith, a generic English person

 

[compheat]

It seems that your going for a cheap and cheerful combi. and after all the slagging off thats been going on you've not listened to anything thats been said by all the skilled plumbers/heating installers on this site. Has someone who as sat back and watch this debate go on it would seem that you are going to get a costly lesson in boiler installations.
For £400 he cant afford to flush the system or bring the system up to Part L standards. How can he be registered with CORGI? at that price.

 

[jdey]

Yeh, he's going to mains flush the system for me, as I've taken on board the concerns of the CORGIs as to whether the steel pipework will cope with the powerflush. He's been in the UK for 2 years and got his papers in Poland. Apparantly, there's reciprocal recognition of skills.

I don't really care. It seems, the CORGI engineers try and wriggle out of any guarantees for their work, and the small outfits warranties are worthless anyway, so I may as well get a cheap guy in.

Polski = £1000
UK = £2500 with indemnification to install new boiler
UK = £4500 for whole new heating system plus £2500 for me to re-carpet & fix damage to my house.

So my choice is either £7000 for a complete new system or a £1000 for a risk. I'm a betting man. If I get a whole new system, there's plenty of problems with them too, especially with combi boilers. My house insurance will pay for any water damage caused only if it's the upstairs pipes that go first. Do the math.

 

[compheat]

i don't know what proffesion your in Jdey but as you know theres always someone cheaper. Can i ask your age because going off whats been said i would say your in your 20s. and still learning (no offence intended)

 

[jdey]

No offence taken. I'm not a pensioner whose lost his marbles and is going to hand over his life savings.

 

[compheat]

i've been in the plumbing/heating industry since 1969 and most of the advice you've been give is valid. Since last april i've lost no end of work to cheap polski labour and the fact i try to adhere to the regulations laid down by ODPM. If your fitter instals a normal combi and then sends off notification to CORGI who might then inspect if it doesn't adhere strictly to the point system then it will cause you no end of problems. The reason i'm on this forum today is because i've no work due to polski labour who don't pay tax insurance ect and will work for nought, theres not much i can do to stop them or the public wanting cheap jobs. and with plastic plumbing your grannie can give it a go.

 

[jdey]

Fair enough, you sound honest, and I sympathise with your plight. The service sector is being globalised in most industries now. There's been a big demo in Strasbourg today with European workers complaining about the 'Polish plumber' problem.

From my point of view, however, I originally came on to this forum for general advice when I decided that because my boiler was leaking water that I'd like to replace it with a new one. I was thinking that that would cost me about £2500, at the time, which to my mind doesn't make me a cheap customer.

I'm right about the guidelines, you can check it for yourself. I have a Victorian mid-terrace with a kitchen & bathroom extension and my Servowarm boiler is situated in the living room with an external balanced flue. The distance between my kitchen/bathroom wall is 1.48cm and I've got a patio at the back. The guidelines example is as if the surveyor visited my house. My house is very unusual as most people have their boiler in the kitchen.

Now, we both know that the law isn't enforced. Whenever I've bought a house previously, the surveyor just commented on the type of heating system with a general state of condition, the traditional proviso that it may need some work in a couple of years and the get out clause that they've not tested it. So long as you get a CORGI certificate for the work that you've got done then no further scrutiny takes place.

If you want to keep the work going, I'd take a pragmatic view to the law. The quoters that I've dealt with grumbled about the crystal clear evidence that I presented to them because they wanted to increase their take on the single job by putting in a condensing rather than non-condensing boiler. Again, I've acknowledged that it's probably wise to replace the pipework, but it's a case of budget & hassle. I like my house as it is. I don't want to have to spend £2.5k repairing the damage done by the fitters. Maybe next year, I'll replace the pipework, but this year I just don't have the money or time. If I could find a UK plumber who'd replace the boiler this year and it works without problems then I'd get him back to do the pipework. That's how to please and retain customers.

No doubt, I'll get the usual abuse back from the usual crowd.