Stinky bathroom

[Bl888]

Hello All,

wondering if I could get some assistance.

Over the past few weeks our Ensuite seems to be coming up with a stinch of like sewer/foul drainage smell.

first thing I looked to was potential blocked toilet but it is fully flowing fine and I even check to the outside drain.

we also have a basin and a shower tray. I decided to do a process of elimination and gaffa taped up the sinkhole/vent and the shower drain. The smell was still coming in.

it seems like the smell could be coming from behind the toilet where I have some open access to the right hand side. See pic. Behind the toilet is a white flexi joint which connects directly into the grey waste pipe. I can just about get my hands to touch the joint to the grey pipe and it’s bone dry.
Unfortunately pipe on left of the toilet is now boxed in with tiles. You can see in pic what it looked like before it was boxed in.

any idea what could be causing the foul smell which seems to be coming from that area? But the pic seems to show the whole area as dry.

is it worth getting some one shot acid and flushing it down the toilet?

many thanks in advance.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Soil pipe from the WC goes into the corner, can you trace the stack it connects too, upwards? I suspect there may be an 'Air Admittance Valve' on the top. These are supposed to do as the name suggests, allow air into the system when required, but they can also stick open, and allow air out, which may well be your issue....

 

[Bl888]

Soil pipe from the WC goes into the corner, can you trace the stack it connects too, upwards? I suspect there may be an 'Air Admittance Valve' on the top. These are supposed to do as the name suggests, allow air into the system when required, but they can also stick open, and allow air out, which may well be your issue....

Thanks for the quick response Hugh. U fortunately it’s all tiles up. But before the work was done it bends to the right to goes along there till it meets a new pipe.

I also have a family bathroom on the right of that room which I believe also connects to it before it goes into the extension and later drops to the ground floor.

no idea where or if there is a air admittance valve though. Strange this this was all done a year ago and only started noticing a smell 2-3 weeks ago

also none of the pipes go out externally. Everything stays internal.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Any sign of the stack venting through the roof externally? If it doesn't then there is either an AAV somewhere internally or the installer simply didnt bother and it terminates open ended somewhere inside the building...

Any gurgling or glugging noise when appliances are discharged?

 

[Bl888]

Any sign of the stack venting through the roof externally? If it doesn't then there is either an AAV somewhere internally or the installer simply didnt bother and it terminates open ended somewhere inside the building...

Any gurgling or glugging noise when appliances are discharged?

There is definitely nothing on the roof apart from the boiler flue.

not sure on the AAV as the plumber that did the bathroom just connected the new waste pipe to the existing in pic.

I did have the downstairs extended so the original pipework was extended to go out further to the back of the house before it drops down.

Not sure at this stage whether there was a aav and whether one was replaced.

regards to gurgling when I flush the toilet I can’t seem to hear it around the toilet. Seems to be immediate. I also used a steel rotating mechanisms to see if there was a blockage and nothing.

Could it be the flexi bend pipe from toilet basin to grey pipe being the problem? I tried pushing that into the grey pipe and the back of the toilet as much as possible but seems to make no difference.

also There is no smell at all in the family bathroom which I believe connects to the same pipe and then goes down

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Any potential blockage could be a lot further away, the issue arises when you flush the WC, and suddenly you've got 6-7 litres of water, if it cant get away past the blockage, needing to displace the same volume (6-7 litres) of air, this, if the stack isn't open to atmosphere, will look for the easiest way out. However, if you dont have any other symptoms, this may not be so likely.

The flexi pan connector, (these are not ideal and most plumbers hate them), if it's firmly located on the outlet from the WC pan, and the finned section is firmly located inside the grey soil pipe, then unless its slit, its not likely to be an issue. I'd check it for any possible damage, if that looks ok, then see if any traps are being pulled when a WC is flushed.

 

[Bl888]

Any potential blockage could be a lot further away, the issue arises when you flush the WC, and suddenly you've got 6-7 litres of water, if it cant get away past the blockage, needing to displace the same volume (6-7 litres) of air, this, if the stack isn't open to atmosphere, will look for the easiest way out. However, if you dont have any other symptoms, this may not be so likely.

The flexi pan connector, (these are not ideal and most plumbers hate them), if it's firmly located on the outlet from the WC pan, and the finned section is firmly located inside the grey soil pipe, then unless its slit, its not likely to be an issue. I'd check it for any possible damage, if that looks ok, then see if any traps are being pulled when a WC is flushed.

I just had a look in the loft. So the family bathroom has a AAV in the loft which I believe the Ensuite routes to. Feels a bit loose though but seems it’s all connects behind the walls. The ensuite and family bedroom are next to each other.

The flexi pipe looks ok but I can’t tell for sure unless I completely remove it. Still
A bit strange that it would suddenly break.

 

[Bl888]

Any potential blockage could be a lot further away, the issue arises when you flush the WC, and suddenly you've got 6-7 litres of water, if it cant get away past the blockage, needing to displace the same volume (6-7 litres) of air, this, if the stack isn't open to atmosphere, will look for the easiest way out. However, if you dont have any other symptoms, this may not be so likely.

The flexi pan connector, (these are not ideal and most plumbers hate them), if it's firmly located on the outlet from the WC pan, and the finned section is firmly located inside the grey soil pipe, then unless its slit, its not likely to be an issue. I'd check it for any possible damage, if that looks ok, then see if any traps are being pulled when a WC is flushed.

is it worth getting some one shot acid and flushing it down the toilet/shower/sink?

 

[Bl888]

Any potential blockage could be a lot further away, the issue arises when you flush the WC, and suddenly you've got 6-7 litres of water, if it cant get away past the blockage, needing to displace the same volume (6-7 litres) of air, this, if the stack isn't open to atmosphere, will look for the easiest way out. However, if you dont have any other symptoms, this may not be so likely.

The flexi pan connector, (these are not ideal and most plumbers hate them), if it's firmly located on the outlet from the WC pan, and the finned section is firmly located inside the grey soil pipe, then unless its slit, its not likely to be an issue. I'd check it for any possible damage, if that looks ok, then see if any traps are being pulled when a WC is flushed.

also see rough drawings:

1) back view. You can see the ensuite toilet is next door to bathroom. I believe the pipe from ensuite connects to the bathroom and vents up into the loft and then starts it’s route downstairs

2) side view will show the route to downstairs better due to ground floor extension. Not sure exactly when the extension was done how they stopped the initial straight down in the old stack. when the soil pipe was extended to run along the roof and then to the back of the extension and then down into the ground where the soil pipe runs through the house to the front of house. Dependent on this, will mean whether the valve is being used in the loft. But I doubt they would completely modify and bypass that that stack otherwise I would have issues in the family bathroom

3) The ensuite soil pipe runs along the wall, goes through the wall on the left and does a U bend to turn to the right and then into the bathroom area

I checked the manhole at the front of the house with the tissue test and all seemed fine

Also not sure if it’s just me being sensitive to it now but it seems to smell the ensuite out without using the toilet, but it seems to get stronger and pushes more smell when I flush the toilet

 

[Bl888]

Any potential blockage could be a lot further away, the issue arises when you flush the WC, and suddenly you've got 6-7 litres of water, if it cant get away past the blockage, needing to displace the same volume (6-7 litres) of air, this, if the stack isn't open to atmosphere, will look for the easiest way out. However, if you dont have any other symptoms, this may not be so likely.

The flexi pan connector, (these are not ideal and most plumbers hate them), if it's firmly located on the outlet from the WC pan, and the finned section is firmly located inside the grey soil pipe, then unless its slit, its not likely to be an issue. I'd check it for any possible damage, if that looks ok, then see if any traps are being pulled when a WC is flushed.

the newly fitted shower and sink runs down a small black waste pipe behind the grey soil pipe. I think it then connects to the same soil stack and then to the pipe at the back of the extension as I’m sure we can hear when someone has a shower.
But as i have gaffer taped both sink and shower. Could this be the cause? Ie I can’t work out in my head where smell can escape if I’ve taped up the sinkhole plus vent and the shower drain hole. The waste just seems to be the black pipes in the picture attached

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Acid is awful stuff, unlikely it'll achieve much (other than risking melting the plastic), and then if further works need to be carried out, it's presence is a danger to anyone working on the system. AVOID! Issue is likely to be air escaping from the system, just a case of working out where. Gaffer tape may not be entirely airtight, but if the traps are full of water, then any leakage there shouldn't be an issue anyway.

Flexi's can split over time, the plastic is quite thin, ground floor installations risk rodent damage, but this wont be a issue here. If you've inspected it and seems ok, then discount that, although replacement with a rigid version would be my preference. I am also assuming the horizontal section of the 'new' pipework through the roofspace is on a sensible fall and there's no opportunity for waste to build up in the pipework.

A Smoke test of the drainage system is one option, this will reveal any leaks, (although if you've a large leak then it'll fill the area with smoke to indicate its presence!)

 

[Bl888]

Acid is awful stuff, unlikely it'll achieve much (other than risking melting the plastic), and then if further works need to be carried out, it's presence is a danger to anyone working on the system. AVOID! Issue is likely to be air escaping from the system, just a case of working out where. Gaffer tape may not be entirely airtight, but if the traps are full of water, then any leakage there shouldn't be an issue anyway.

Flexi's can split over time, the plastic is quite thin, ground floor installations risk rodent damage, but this wont be a issue here. If you've inspected it and seems ok, then discount that, although replacement with a rigid version would be my preference. I am also assuming the horizontal section of the 'new' pipework through the roofspace is on a sensible fall and there's no opportunity for waste to build up in the pipework.

A Smoke test of the drainage system is one option, this will reveal any leaks, (although if you've a large leak then it'll fill the area with smoke to indicate its presence!)

thanks. Out of interest. Where would the leaks appear from as it’s deffo somewhere in that ensuite

 

[Madrab]

Is there any gurgling or noise when you drain the basin/shower? Any back up into one drain when one or the other is run/draining?

Look at any of the joints for dampness.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Leak could be on any of the joints I'm afraid, may also depend on how well it was fitted in the first place. I can also see a white overflow pipe coming from the waste, where does that go to?

 

[Bl888]

That small white pipe going into the black shower waste is from the boiler room