Storage Heater Problem...and water not heating..coincidence?

[JulesNotAClue]

Got a couple of problems which have both occured within the last few days. The first one is that my water is not heating up properly (its barely lukewarm). I am on Economy 7 and the clock appears to be working ok. The storage heaters (apart from the one mentioned below) all appear to be working ok - which would point to the clock working ok (or am I wrong?)

I've read a few posts on here which have given some good advice regarding possible reasons for my water problem which I'm having investigated tonight hopefully

The second problem is my storage heater in the living room seems to have a mind of its own. Although I have set the input control to around 3 or 4 (even 1 to test) and it is boiling hot - almost too hot to touch. Reckon my electric bill will be through the roof! Do you think it could be something as simple as the thermostat that has gone? If so, will this cost mega bucks. The storage heaters are ancient but I cant afford to replace them.

Does anyone think that the 2 issues might be related...or is it just a coincidence??

 

[stem]

The first one is that my water is not heating up properly (its barely lukewarm). I am on Economy 7 and the clock appears to be working ok. The storage heaters (apart from the one mentioned below) all appear to be working ok - which would point to the clock working ok (or am I wrong?)

The two systems are usually wired independently. The storage heaters are normally connected to a separate dedicated consumer unit which is powered directly from the electric meter so that is only energised when a low rate tarriff is in operation.

The hot water heating is normally connected to the other consumer unit used for lighting, and power etc., This allows it to be powered as required and the electricity used is charged at the appropriate rate at the time. A separate time switch set to operate it during the off peak rate is the most cost efficient way of using it. If required an override or boost provides a top up outside of the off peak rate.

Please confirm this assumption is correct this will help determine the next step.

The second problem is my storage heater in the living room seems to have a mind of its own. Although I have set the input control to around 3 or 4 (even 1 to test) and it is boiling hot - almost too hot to touch. Reckon my electric bill will be through the roof! Do you think it could be something as simple as the thermostat that has gone? If so, will this cost mega bucks. The storage heaters are ancient but I cant afford to replace them.

The input switch controls the amount of heat stored during the offpeak charge. You don't say what the maximum setting is, on some heaters it's 4. If so, on the maximum setting the internal storage medium (usually bricks) will get very hot. the heat that is released into the room is controlled by the output setting which opens a flap at the top to allow the stored heat to be released into the room. Turning the output down will reduce the heat from the radiator but not stop it completely. Sometimes this flap can stick open and release too much heat. try setting the output and input to the minimum setting tonight and report what happens tomorrow. The heaters are usually fitted with an overheat cut out, if the thermostat fails in the on position the cut out would operate.

I doubt the two things are related to each other.

 

[JulesNotAClue]

Thanks for your reply Stem. I've always presumed that the systems were running off the same timer located in the airing cupboard by the water tank but having looked last night it only states 'Water Heater' on the timer...bit of a give away ha ha. However I've never noticed another unit where the meters are in the porch (I will try and clamber over the kids junk yard tonight to see if I can spot one). We did some tests last night to see if the water would heat up - I changed the timer so it read 2 a.m. but the Economy 7 didnt kick in. Then we put the boost on for an hour and it worked ok and water was lovely and hot. As far as I know the cold water tank is located in the loft and there is only one tank in the airing cupboard which has one set of electrics running to the timer etc. Sorry if all this is obvious but like I say 'I havent a clue'

With regards to the storage heater. The max setting is 9 (which I only usually need a couple of times a year when bitterly cold) on the input and the output is currently set to lowest setting. I have tested it over several nights on different low settings 1 3 and 4 and it's constantly boiling.

 

[flameport]

If the heater is always far too hot, the thermostat needs to be replaced.
There is also a cutout to prevent the thing overheating, but on some models that is part of the thermostat so could be faulty as well.

Spares are available for virtually all storage heaters, and are not particularly expensive. (far less than the cost of a new heater).
What make and model is it? (or post a picture if you can't see any markings on it).

 

[stem]

I've never noticed another unit where the meters are in the porch

Normally there isn't another timer as such. I would expect your electricity meter to have two readings "low" and "normal" (electronic digital types are different) The switch over is controlled by your electricity supplier, in some case they use a timer (sealed so you can't change it) or more commonly by a radio signal. The storage heaters are wired to a separate consumer unit that only operates when the "low" rate is on. Anyway this probably isn't relative to your current problems. You've identified what's controlling the hot water.

I changed the timer so it read 2 a.m. but the Economy 7 didnt kick in. Then we put the boost on for an hour and it worked ok and water was lovely and hot.

Either the clock is faulty, or, and I think this is most likely, the water heating has two elements, one that heats the bottom of the tank (off peak) and one that heats the top (boost). The bottom, or, off peak emersion element or thermostat may have failed (usually the element). You need to be able to use a multimeter to check this out though really.

Regarding your storage heater, it could be a faulty thermostat, though if the thermostat fails "off" nothing will get hot at all, or if it fails "on" I would expect the overheat to trip. Are you sure the knob is working, ie turning the spindle. Sometimes the knobs get brittle because of the heat, crack and don't operate the shaft. If this is the case the heater could be permanently on a high setting.

You could try changing the thermostat as flameport suggests, it's possible it may have become inaccurate or the sensor parts failing. Check the knob's working first though, and also that the output flap (you can usually see it through the grille) isn't stuck in the open position.

As an afterthought, it's possible that the system that changes over your meter from "low" to "normal" rates has failed on the "low" rate so that the storage heater is energised constantly. If this was the case though, all of your storage heaters not just the one in the living room would show the same symptoms. You can easily look to see that the meter switches over by looking at it during the "peak" and off "peak times" and checking the appropriate reading is increasing.

 

[JulesNotAClue]

Thank you both for your advice. Not sure how it's been fixed but the water is now heating up...very strange. My partner spent some time investigating last night and whatever he's done has worked...unfortunately we're not sure what it was that fixed it

I just have the problem with the storage heater to sort out now - any advice would be most appreciated. Although I dont know the model etc it is a Dimplex 3KW heater - probably about 15 years old now. We've checked the actual knobs to see if they are turning correctly and they are - also the flap which operates the boost output is working ok and not stuck in the on position, it's currently closed. It's still set to the lowest setting and still blasting out heat as if it's set to 9, the max setting. We thought we'd have a go at replacing the thermostat but we can't see how you do this? It all looks like a complete sealed unit.

 

[flameport]

Thermostats and other parts here with pictures:
http://www.storageheater.co.uk/Makes/Dimplex.htm
(There are pictures of the actual heaters as well, so you should be able to identify yours)

15 years ago is probably the XL series (control knobs on the top), or possibly the XT (controls on the front behind a flap).

 

[stem]

Thanks for your reply Stem.

Thank you both for your advice..

There's a button in the top right hand corner of each post for that you know