Supporting Ukraine

[Vinty]

Vinty you are sounding more like a Putin apologist by the day, how much is he paying you

Paying me plenty, the only problem is that wetherspoons don't accept Rubles.

 

[Vinty]

.

 

[denso13]

And, as we all well know, a good bit of "WAR" sells your MSM far more than what Kate was wearing today.

Better stick to TikTok, free at the point of use and up now to 10min clips. What's not to like!

 

[Vinty]

Whataboutery.

It was the first stage, just like Hitler's seizure of the sudentenland and just as honest.

Don't mention the War!
Godwin's Law, as every good Internet citizen knows, reads as follows: “As an online discussion continues, the probability of a reference or comparison to Hitler or Nazis approaches 1.” When Mike Godwin created it in 1990, he was trying to address the widespread phenomenon of glibly comparing someone else to Hitler

 

[Vinty]

stop the war now and move on for the sake of all

Unfortunately the war seems to be here to stay.
If Putin withdraws unilaterally, then that could give NATO an excuse to occupy Ukraine on the pretext of preventing another invasion.
That would be a nightmare scenario for Putin.
The only way out is a negotiated withdrawal by Russia and security guarantees for both Russian speakers and Ukrainians.

 

[Notch7]

Unfortunately the war seems to be here to stay.
If Putin withdraws unilaterally, then that could give NATO an excuse to occupy Ukraine on the pretext of preventing another invasion.
That would be a nightmare scenario for Putin.
The only way out is a negotiated withdrawal by Russia and security guarantees for both Russian speakers and Ukrainians.

the world order has been upset, from now on Russia will be frozen out of world banking and trade permanently.

Putins days are numbered

 

[IT Minion]

Don't mention the War!
Godwin's Law, as every good Internet citizen knows, reads as follows: “As an online discussion continues, the probability of a reference or comparison to Hitler or Nazis approaches 1.” When Mike Godwin created it in 1990, he was trying to address the widespread phenomenon of glibly comparing someone else to Hitler

You didn't read the rest, that Godwin dislikes the use of his law to shut down discussion when someone is like Hitler.

Clear parallels, especially when you include apparent logistics issues when they both decided to invade Russia in the winter.

 

[JohnD]

The only way out is a negotiated withdrawal by Russia and security guarantees for both Russian speakers and Ukrainians.

Russia guaranteed the security and territorial integrity of Ukraine when Ukraine handed over their nuclear weapons.

Nobody will believe Russia again

Especially not Ukraine.

 

[Vinty]

the world order has been upset, from now on Russia will be frozen out of world banking and trade permanently.

More a case of Americas grip on the world financial systems coming to an end.
One thing this crisis has highlighted is American abuse of the Global banking system to target individuals and states with sanctions.
The partial banning of Russia from the SWIFT messaging system has accelerated the trend towards an alternative to the American dollar in international trade.
Countries around the world are getting angry about being told by America who they can trade with and who they can't.
It is no longer a case of if but when a separate global financial system to rival America becomes a reality.
In general sanctions as a device to instigate regime change don't work.
Iran was kicked of the SWIFT system years ago but it didn't get rid of the mad Mullahs in Tehran, same with Venezuela, Cuba, Syria and N. Korea.
The only people who suffer are the poorest and most vulnerable in the targeted countries, the rich and powerful are never short of a few quid.
N.Korea was sanctioned and its bank's banned from SWIFT but according to the UN N. Korea used the SWIFT system to steal one hundred million dollars from a bank in Bangladesh.

 

[Vinty]

Russia guaranteed the security and territorial integrity of Ukraine when Ukraine handed over their nuclear weapons.

Nobody will believe Russia again

Especially not Ukraine.

That was before the US/EU instigated the overthrow of the government of Ukraine.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Imagine the IoW was pro-Macron, French speaking, pro independence and France decided to help them gain their freedom. That is Putin's reason for invading Crimea. I'm not defending him, but it was not for no reason.

Except that maybe about half of Ukraine is Ukranian speaking - a language that Stalin and his successors (and predecessors) seemingly tried to stamp out for well over 100 years. That's a slight difference.

When I did a bit of research on this I found that in 2005 the Ukrainian National Academy of Science had done a survey which concluded that the language of everyday speech was:

• 41.8% - Ukrainian
• 36.4% - Russian
• 21.6% - both

In any case, having been to a pop festival on the IoW once (which was more than enough, ta), I'd say the Frogs can have it!

Paying me plenty, the only problem is that wetherspoons don't accept Rubles.

And in any case if they did take Roubles, they way that's going, you'd need a wheelbarrow to carry enough in to buy two pints of lager and a packet of crisps

On a more positive note, it's great to see that influential European firms are now sanctioning Russia - the latest to pull-out are M&S and IKEA who have both closed their retail outlets across the country. In IKEA's case they have also closed outlets in Belarus as well as stopping all imports from there.

Looks like Vlad can forget that Billy bookcase he promised to put up for the missus this weekend, then!

 

[Justin Passing]

According to Wikipedia there are all sorts of different figures for % who speak what. Many speak both. Some 20% of the population are faithful to Russia and always vote for a pro-Russian candidate, according to a Ukranian writer on Hard Talk at the moment. His mother tongue is Russian, married a westerner. Sounds like a moderate though he annoys R with his writings.. Says Pootin is nuts.

On the thread subject. I happen to have a house spare at the mo, so if the 'fugees get over here they can use that for a couple of years.

 

[Notch7]

More a case of Americas grip on the world financial systems coming to an end.
One thing this crisis has highlighted is American abuse of the Global banking system to target individuals and states with sanctions.
The partial banning of Russia from the SWIFT messaging system has accelerated the trend towards an alternative to the American dollar in international trade.
Countries around the world are getting angry about being told by America who they can trade with and who they can't.
It is no longer a case of if but when a separate global financial system to rival America becomes a reality.
In general sanctions as a device to instigate regime change don't work.
Iran was kicked of the SWIFT system years ago but it didn't get rid of the mad Mullahs in Tehran, same with Venezuela, Cuba, Syria and N. Korea.
The only people who suffer are the poorest and most vulnerable in the targeted countries, the rich and powerful are never short of a few quid.
N.Korea was sanctioned and its bank's banned from SWIFT but according to the UN N. Korea used the SWIFT system to steal one hundred million dollars from a bank in Bangladesh.

strawman argument, I never mentioned swift.

 

[JohnD]

That was before the US/EU instigated the overthrow of the government of Ukraine.

It's Russia busy doing that.

 

[Mottie]

.