SUPPORTING WALL????

[cravenbiker]

Hi All

Got a flat in 4 story block of flats
concrete floors

want to knock kitchen into lounge, the wall is 2230mm in length.

put in 4 acrows and took wall out leaving 1500+ either end for rsj.

when i knocked the wall out the blockes were 2.5" wide (not surewhat you call these particular blocks , they are blue and very light)

my question is if anyone could tell me if these would have been used in a load baring wall? if not then i plan to remove the 2 pillas that i have left at either end and have the whole thing opened up.

Thanks


Tris

 

[ColJack]

you fricking idiot..

you knock down a wall before finding out if it's load bearing?

who did the calcs for your RSJ? they should have told you if it was load bearing or not..

you don't say what floor your flat is on or what type of block if is..

 

[cravenbiker]

you fricking idiot..

you knock down a wall before finding out if it's load bearing?

who did the calcs for your RSJ? they should have told you if it was load bearing or not..

you don't say what floor your flat is on or what type of block if is..

Struc engineer recommended 203x102x23kg UB RSJ

he said that it is very difficult to tell 100% in that block if it is Load baring or not due to the construction. he said that by the sound of the wall and by the joint between wall and the ceiling it was build post erection and carries no weight but to recommentd the rsj above for prudency.

after knocking the wall down today, i noticed that the wall came out very easily (possible indication that the wall is not under any stress?) and that the the blocks were 2.5" thick and not 10cm that he initially expected (adjascent internal wall is 10cm thick).

i called him today and told him about the thickness of the block and he said that if he was to come back to sign the work off without an RSJ that we would be happy that 2.5" would have not been enough to act as a supporting wall.

However he did not give me this in writing and i have not dealt with him before and i am trying towork out if i should stick with the original plan (with RSJ) or not ( without)

savvi?

 

[mikeyd]

you fricking idiot..

you knock down a wall before finding out if it's load bearing?

I couldn't have put it better myself.


Cravenbiker:
You need a good and proper understanding of what was above that wall. It was maybe put in to add just enough support for the joists of the floor above...

 

[joe-90]

Those buildings are usually built then partitioned afterwards. It's almost certainly not load bearing but your engineer sounds like an idiot.

 

[cravenbiker]

The block is 4 stories and mine is the 1st floor

the floors are concrete

 

[mikeyd]

You should ask in the building section of this forum, or request a moderator to move the thread.

 

[cravenbiker]

Those buildings are usually built then partitioned afterwards. It's almost certainly not load bearing but your engineer sounds like an idiot.

do you think i should get a 2nd opinion before inserting that size rsj incase it needs something more substantial?
Is there a way of checking his status as an engineer?

 

[cravenbiker]

You should ask in the building section of this forum, or request a moderator to move the thread.

thanks

will do

 

[joe-90]

Those buildings are usually built then partitioned afterwards. It's almost certainly not load bearing but your engineer sounds like an idiot.

do you think i should get a 2nd opinion before inserting that size rsj incase it needs something more substantial?
Is there a way of checking his status as an engineer?

Those buildings are usually made with concrete pillars taking the weight and the concrete floors self supporting. They made them all over the world like that (and still do). Then they put the walls in afterwards.

 

[conny]

Those buildings are usually built then partitioned afterwards. It's almost certainly not load bearing but your engineer sounds like an idiot.

do you think i should get a 2nd opinion before inserting that size rsj incase it needs something more substantial?
Is there a way of checking his status as an engineer?

Those buildings are usually made with concrete pillars taking the weight and the concrete floors self supporting. They made them all over the world like that (and still do). Then they put the walls in afterwards.

But there is always a slim chance that a previous tenant/owner built the wall so he could take down any supporting pillars not realising they were load bearing.
Maybe only a slim chance but slim chances have a habit of happening when you least expect them to.
Get a chartered surveyor in to do a proper job, will cost a bit but at least you could sleep at night.

 

[joe-90]

The pillars are poured concrete over rebar - you can't take them down.

 

[ColJack]

you could always tap up the flat above and ask if you could take a look at what's above...

the reason I asked what kind of flat it was is that if it's a converted house it's not likely to be of the construction type as mentioned above wherein they build a shell then partition it off with light walls / studwork walls etc..

 

[regsmyth]

You can't be sure what loadings the original structure was designed for unless you can get a copy of the original calcs, and that seems pretty unlikely.

So you have knocked down the bit between two pillars, well that bit is probably ok, especially, as you say, the blocks are only 65mm and a bit loosish.

But what are these pillars? If Joe 90 is right, you won't shift them in a hurry, and for good reason. You should post a photo.

You should also do some sketches with dimensions so that you can discuss this with your (next?) engineer. You might also be able to work out the thickness of the concrete floor above. You might also need to show what walls are constructed on the floor above and so on. But key to concrete strength is the rebar inside. And you won't be working that out in a hurry.

Your engineer is covering himself, probably wisely, by getting you to sign a disclaimer, but maybe he's just trying to earn a crust any way he can. (But I can't see his insurance company coughing up for a new block of flats when it all collapses, killing and maiming the residents, just because he's got your signature on a piece of paper, can you?)

Your RSJ - would this be supported on the remnants of your skinny wall, or did you plan to notch out your concrete columns? ... And if you removed them, then what will it be supported on?

Lightweight blocks can still be load bearing - in many building constructions the roof weight is taken on the inner leaf, the lightweight thermalite blocks. So don't kid yourself they don't do anything.

A competent engineer will be able to define your building construction, and provide calculations that will satisfy any enquiring solicitor/building inspector at any time in the future.

Preparation is the key to success. You don't appear to have done much yet.

 

[ColJack]

I don't think he means the structural pillars, he says he left 1500mm of wall each side to support the RSJ.. it's these he wants out to open up the entire wall..