Switch problems

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Norwich
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I have a two gang two way switch at the top of my landing. One switch controls the hall light (with another downstairs switch at the bottom of the stairs that also does the same). The other switch just turns the loft light of and on. What I want to do is make this loft connection permanently live and put a switch further downstream of the wire in the loft instead. Then replace the two way two gang switch with a one gang two way switch to keep the upstairs downstairs function of the landing light. I cant seem to work out which wires go to the loft light. How can I bypass the switch to the loft so making the feed wire up to the loft light permanent and therefore allowing me to install a switch in the loft instead and also not disturbing the function of the reamaining two way landing light switch. I want to do this because my kids keep forgetting which switch is which and I often go up into the loft to find the light has been on for some time/days/weeks!!!!

I also want to split the newly permanent feed wire up in the loft, via a junction box, so as one branch goes to the loft light (with a new one way switch installed near the loft hatch) and another provides power (via a socket I will install) to plug in a 13 amp masthead aerial amplifier.

This way I can switch on and off the light directly in the loft and the power to the amplifier is on permanerntly. Also as the landing switch will be a one gang two way switch the kids can only swithc that light on and not the loft light any more.

Any help would be appreciated greatly
 
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You'll need a 13Amp plus supply for your amplifier if it's rated at 13A, so what is the fuse raitng of the lighting circuit?
If it's less than 13A, which it is likely to be,
you may need to take a spur or extend your socket circuit for this.
The switch cables for the loft should be tracable back from the loft light, a multi-meter would help trace this circuit.
It could be a simple case of disconnecting the switch cable to the loft light and re-installing them in the loft.
Do you intend to remove these switch cables or just disconnect them and replace for new in the loft?
 
You'll need a 13Amp plus supply for your amplifier if it's rated at 13A, so what is the fuse raitng of the lighting circuit?
If it's less than 13A, which it is likely to be,
you may need to take a spur or extend your socket circuit for this.
The switch cables for the loft should be tracable back from the loft light, a multi-meter would help trace this circuit.
It could be a simple case of disconnecting the switch cable to the loft light and re-installing them in the loft.
Do you intend to remove these switch cables or just disconnect them and replace for new in the loft?

The amplifier has a 3 amp fuse in it so I don't think it needs 13 amps. The lighting circuit I don't know what fuse rating it is in the loft. It runs a single incandescent 40w bulb from a rose mounted on one of the roof joists in the loft. I can probably trace the loft wires, but I don't want to go pulling cables out or rerouting, I just want to bypass the landing switch by joining the two relevant wires together so the feed wire to the loft light is permanently on, then put a switch in line, up in the loft to control on and off.

At the old landing switch with the two loft wires joined together and bypassing the switch, I want to remove the two switch panel and replace it with a one gang two way switch to retain the landing light switch on off facility, without disturbing the ability to switch it off downstairs as well.

With respect to the loft light if it is less than 13A, can I put a junction box in on the newly permanent live feed, then from here spur it to the loft light (with a switch in line and the other junction spur to a socket, to plug in the 3A aerial amplifier?
 
The masthead aerial amplifier will be rated at next to nothing, so you could consider running this off your lighting circuit instead of running cable to a 13A socket into the loft. Could do this:

p1449717_l.jpg
possibly with
p42521_l.jpg


or just:
p42456_l.jpg


to supply your amplifier.

A 13A socket on a lighting circuit is not appropriate.
 
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If you can trace the switch wires, you can link the two wires at the switch via a connection block.
In essence this may now become permanently live, but is still a switch cable.
Then break into the switch cable in the loft and take a switch to suitable location via either junction boxes or a choc boxes to extend the switch cable.
A 3amp socket can be taken from the lighting circuit.
You would not take this from the switch cable, but loop it from the lighting circuit.
 
If you can trace the switch and loop cables in your loft and work out what's what, you may find that you can just pull out the loft switch cable on the landing back to the loft and attach a new light switch in the loft. Depends where your lighting circuit is looped in/out, and also that the cable is run in conduit or capping.

Clear photo of the wiring in your landing switch would be useful.

For the amp. socket, find a lighting loop cable in the loft and install the 5A socket/FCU on that loop, maybe extending the loop with a JB if needed.
 
OK here is a schematic of the switch on the landing. A and B wires come in from the top of the switch housing and C from the bottom of the switch housing, presumably this is the wire to the downstairs landing light switch.

I should add that the terminal positions are shown inverted (top to bottom) as this is how they look when you unscrew the switch plate and bend it over backwards to see the terminals, so once in place it would be COM,L2, L1 at the top and L2, L1, COM at the bottom of the switch when screwed in place.

I am guessing either wires A or B are for the loft but I cant tell which one. Which wires do I need to join together, if you can deduce from this picture which is the loft light wire, plus if I want to change the landing switch plate to a 2 way one gang switch plate. so which of the landing light wires (a combination of either A & C or B & C) do I need to wire onto the new switch plate and jumper wires if any. Also at the very left of the picture my scanner cut it off but the red and yellow wires from A & C go to a connector block.

Thanks all for your help so far

switchwiring.jpg
[/img]
 
If you can trace the switch and loop cables in your loft and work out what's what, you may find that you can just pull out the loft switch cable on the landing back to the loft and attach a new light switch in the loft. Depends where your lighting circuit is looped in/out, and also that the cable is run in conduit or capping.

Clear photo of the wiring in your landing switch would be useful.

For the amp. socket, find a lighting loop cable in the loft and install the 5A socket/FCU on that loop, maybe extending the loop with a JB if needed.

Schematic now posted
 
If you can trace the switch wires, you can link the two wires at the switch via a connection block.
In essence this may now become permanently live, but is still a switch cable.
Then break into the switch cable in the loft and take a switch to suitable location via either junction boxes or a choc boxes to extend the switch cable.
A 3amp socket can be taken from the lighting circuit.
You would not take this from the switch cable, but loop it from the lighting circuit.

When you say loop it from the lighting circuit, do you mean directly from the loft light rose fitting on the roof joist. Is this rose fitting not fed from the now live switch cable anyway? Did you mean I can put a loft switch in line on the existing switch cable to the light, once its made live at the landing switch.

If you meant the socket must be fed off a separate lighting circuit in the house, I have two lights in the bathroom (spotlights) whose wires are easy to trace in the loft. If I spliced into one of these wires and fitted a socket, could I just put a junction box in here and then from that a socket for the aerial amplifier power supply.

Right now my biggest headache is sorting out the landing light switch wiring so I can make the loft switch cable live and then swap the switch plates remaining wiring over to a new one gang two way switch. I can sort out the rest of the work in the loft later and just undo the bulb in the loft for now as it will be on permanently until I install the new loft light switch.
 
Assuming sleeving is correct, Cable 'B' is carrying switched line and neutral and will go directly to your loft light fitting. Check this is correct by testing with a multimeter first!

So you need to convert this cable to a permanently live loop:

Disconnect red B from L2 and connect to Com on the switch on the left in your diagram.
Disconnect red A from the Com on the RH switch and also connect to LH switch's Com. Remove the red jumper.

You have now fully disconnected the loft light switch (RH) and can replace the fitting with a one-gang 2-way.

Cable B in the loft is now the end of the lighting loop and can be used to power you amplifier socket and your loft light. You can run this to a 1-way switch in the loft and then take switched line from this new switch and neutral on to the light fitting.

(Or you can loop in at the loft light fitting - whatever is easier/uses less cable)
 
When you say loop it from the lighting circuit, do you mean directly from the loft light rose fitting on the roof joist. Is this rose fitting not fed from the now live switch cable anyway?

Did you mean I can put a loft switch in line on the existing switch cable to the light, once its made live at the landing switch.

Either is fine.
 
Just drawn out the cct for the landing light 2-way, and it's a bit unusual in that the cable A appears to be carrying Line, Neutral and switched line to the light fitting, which means that the lighting circuit is looped between the rose and the switch in 3-core & E. Hope that helps.
 
Just drawn out the cct for the landing light 2-way, and it's a bit unusual in that the cable A appears to be carrying Line, Neutral and switched line to the light fitting, which means that the lighting circuit is looped between the rose and the switch in 3-core & E. Hope that helps.

Hmmm not really. Are you saying the loft light could be wire A then?

Your last post aside, going by your earlier post about rewiring the connections in the landing light switch (oh and thanks so much for your help so far) if B is the correct wire to the loft light, once I mod the connections as per your suggestions, then the cable in the loft becomes a permanently live switched cable, which is what I want to achieve.

What I now need to know is this.

I have fitted a 3 way junction box in the loft. I will cut the wire to the loft light where it can be accessed at loft floor level, and feed this into the junction box. I will also wire into the junction box another cable to the socket for the amplifier and a final one to the new loft light switch and from there the remaining original wire to the light that I cut earlier, into the new switch.

With respect to the loft light switch you said I can use a one way one gang switch but this only has two wire fittings inside (I bought an MK one way one gang switch) one for neutral, one for live and one earth point in the switch housing. The wire from the junction box (which will be fed by the live loft switched cable) is now connected to this switch but if I then connect the remaining original wire from the light into this new loft light switch, will this not be permanently ON, as the two respective live wires and neutrals will be in contact together or do I need another type of switch? I did see an intermediate switch in B & Q. Is this what I need?

Other than that I have pretty much sorted out all the other wiring, in the loft tonight. My intentions tomorrow to complete the job were
to isolate the power supply to the house, rewire the landing light switch connections, change it to a single gang 2 way switch and cut the loft cable B and feed it into the junction box and the other cut end that goes to the light, into the switch, then restore power and test.

Thanks again

Rod
 
Did a bit of head scratching and with my one gang one way switch in the loft, if I run the remaining cut end of the cable (other cut end went into junction box, see my previous post) from the light to the new switch and connect the neutral wire to the neutral supply wire at the switch using a choc block connector, then connect the live wire to one terminal and the live supply wire at the switch to the other terminal, should this not work, as then the red wire going to my light becomes the switched live. The earth from the light, along with the supply earth into the switch I will connect to the earth terminal in the switch.
 
Echoes, I posted this elsewhere on here. Please give me your thoughts or anyone else for that matter having read my earlier posts on this thread.

I am running a permanently switched live loft cable from a landing light switch which previouslly used to feed the loft light as well (two way two gang switch originally) to a junction box in the loft, which then feeds to a socket to power a 3amp power supply for the aerial and another junction wire to a one way gang switch for the loft light. Should I put in a fuse before the junction box to meet regs or is this not possible? Is this set up illegal or in any way unsafe? I used a 20 amp junction box and 10 amp switch and socket plus 20 amp two core and earth cables in the loft
 

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