Switch wires too small

[HOUSER1980]

Hi All,

I've got a light switch with wiring that's way too short. It's the old red and black wires. Was going to use some inline push wire fittings to add some additional wire. Can I connect new brown and blue wire to extend?

Thanks

 

[rsgaz]

Yes, Wago 221 range are very compact. You'd have to sleeve the blue one as brown, so you might as well use two short lengths of brown..

 

[HOUSER1980]

Thanks Ragaz

 

[Notch7]

Yes, Wago 221 range are very compact. You'd have to sleeve the blue one as brown, so you might as well use two short lengths of brown..

Wago 221 are fantastic, I find them much easier than the Wago push in series - which are awkward to push in, when in a confined space and a right bitch to get out

I see Wago do an in-line single 221, ideal for extending a cable

 

[HOUSER1980]

Out of interest are the connectors suitable for extending any electrical wire? I've got a cabinet in the bathroom wired up but looking to move it but again the wire is too short. I only need an extra metre of wire or would I just need to put a full new length in?

 

[winston1]

Pulling a new length in is always the best way. Soldering is the 2nd best way.

 

[SUNRAY]

Soldering is the 2nd best way.

not usually

 

[opps]

Soldering is the 2nd best way.

From what I have read elsewhere, soldering stranded cable is often frowned upon because the solder wicks up under the insulation and creates a point that can snap if wiggled.

 

[SUNRAY]

From what I have read elsewhere, soldering stranded cable is often frowned upon because the solder wicks up under the insulation and creates a point that can snap if wiggled.

Yes you are correct, soldering stranded wire makes it into a solid core, just like a single strand wire and making stranded behave just like T&E.
If it's subject to flexing or vibration it's a no-no and the reason vehicles are not wired with solid conductors. If it's not subject to vibration then theres no problems.
However I reckon a vast majority of electricians have never even seen any form of soldering kit (other than the plumber installing copper pipes) and of those who it's probably still a majority who have never soldered.
I've even been told during inspection to re-make a pre-existing soldered and heatshrunk join within trunking with wago's. The inspector insisted soldering was not permitted.

 

[EFLImpudence]

The joint should be electrically and mechanically sound before soldering. The solder prevents oxidisation between contacting conductors.

If it is wicking under the insulation then it is not done correctly.

526.2
The selection of the means of connection shall take account of, as appropriate:
(i) the material of the conductor and its insulation
(ii) the number and shape of the wires forming the conductor
(iii) the cross-sectional area of the conductor
(iv) the number of conductors to be connected together
(v) the temperature attained at the terminals in normal service such that the effectiveness of the insulation of the
conductors connected to them is not impaired
(vi) the provision of adequate locking arrangements in situations subject to vibration or thermal cycling.
Where a soldered connection is used the design shall take account of creep, mechanical stress and temperature rise
under fault conditions.

526.3
Every connection shall be accessible for inspection, testing and maintenance, except for the following:
...
(iv) A joint made by welding, soldering, brazing or appropriate compression tool
...

 

[EFLImpudence]

If it's subject to flexing or vibration it's a no-no and the reason vehicles are not wired with solid conductors.

...but many are soldered.

The inspector insisted soldering was not permitted.

See above.

 

[bernardgreen]

It is not a good idea to put stranded wire that has been soldered into a screw terminal, The soft solder between the copper strands will deform under the pressure of the screw and thus the pressure on the wire in the terminal is reduced leading to a less than perfect connection.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Yes you are correct, soldering stranded wire makes it into a solid core, just like a single strand wire and making stranded behave just like T&E.

The workaround for that, is to 'spot solder' a flexible, as they used to teach to make a soldered joint in stranded Imperial cables. You tightly twist them together as normal, but only attempt to solder at certain points, so the flexibility is retained.

 

[winston1]

However I reckon a vast majority of electricians have never even seen any form of soldering kit (other than the plumber installing copper pipes) and of those who it's probably still a majority who have never soldered.

Really? I wouldn't call them electricians in that case. I got my first soldering iron at around 12 years old and have used it or its successors regularly ever since.

I've even been told during inspection to re-make a pre-existing soldered and heatshrunk join within trunking with wago's. The inspector insisted soldering was not permitted.

Did you ask him/her what reg prohibited it?

 

[SUNRAY]

...but many are soldered.

I haven't seen soldered wires in vehicles for a lot of years, tip welded after the crimp possibly.

As I understand it (and I'm NOT conversant with the regs in this environment) the action of soldering wire in vehicles is quite well documented and may only be used if the chance of vibration/flexing has been fully mitigated by specific means such as encapsulation etc.

See above.

Yes I'm aware of the inclusion of soldering in 7671

It is not a good idea to put stranded wire that has been soldered into a screw terminal, The soft solder between the copper strands will deform under the pressure of the screw and thus the pressure on the wire in the terminal is reduced leading to a less than perfect connection.

But not very different to putting a stranded wire into a terminal with a screw pushing against the wire.

Really? I wouldn't call them electricians in that case. I got my first soldering iron at around 12 years old and have used it or its successors regularly ever since.

For once I have to agree with you but one has to remember that electricians these days may not actually get to handle electrical bits until after they pass their exams and by then they are qualified... Their scraps of paper prove it.

For passing my 11plus exam I was given a present of a reel to reel tape recorder, At that stage I'd been helping dad make audio cables for many years and soon made leads to couple it to the big ol' radio in the lounge, adapter leads for other kit we had. So again I can but agree.
During the first year at high school I purchased my first iron, more suited to DIN plugs etc than the thing dad had, By the 3rd year I was building all sorts of electronic things. my 14th birthday I asked for a better iron and currently have a selection.
However the average electrician never and I truly mean never has a requirement to solder anything.
When I got into panel building I took samples of some of my work to the interview (at age of late 30's I responded to an advert for an apprentice) to show some abilities, their first comment about the samples: 'we don't solder anything'. Apart from me designing an interface board for one of their regular projects that would have been true for the 14 months before redundancy. Apart from a very ocassional repair that has been true for me in the 20 years of electrical/control work since.

Did you ask him/her what reg prohibited it?

No I walked away and informed my employer I wasn't prepared to work under the inspections on that site and let him sort it out.