System advice

[BlueLoo]

That sort of makes sense, just how would the heating not come on when the hw is called?

I think I have some space for a manifold on each floor, the problem would be running so many pipes around the house in timber floors. I assume main feed and return to manifold in 22mm and each radiator comes off in 15mm?

can 2 or more radiators come off a zone on the manifold?

I have 12 rads split between 2 floors and serviced by 4 manifolds (two supply, two feed).
My system is 2000's and std practice for new builds.

The boiler just heats up the supply circuit. The rads and tank take a feed of that as and when required by asking the controller to fire up the boiler and opening the line valve (either on the rad, or on the hw tank feed).

The system only takes what it needs.

The old s plans etc, were a macro approach to heating as smart rad valves were not a thing. All you could do in a zone was limit temps by setting the trvs.

Tech has moved on. S plans, etc are, imho, dead tech, certainly so for new installs.

My opinion anyways. Others here might disagree.

 

[b21playa]

I have 12 rads split between 2 floors and serviced by 4 manifolds (two supply, two feed).
My system is 2000's and std practice for new builds.

The boiler just heats up the supply circuit. The rads and tank take a feed of that as and when required by asking the controller to fire up the boiler and opening the line valve (either on the rad, or on the hw tank feed).

The system only takes what it needs.

The old s plans etc, were a macro approach to heating as smart rad valves were not a thing. All you could do in a zone was limit temps by setting the trvs.

Tech has moved on. S plans, etc are, imho, dead tech, certainly so for new installs.

My opinion anyways. Others here might disagree.

It does make sense, I’m in IT so I make the comparison between moving from ring networks to star networks.

I’m contemplating whether I do the manifolds myself as I sort each room up and then get the tank&boiler fitted by an engineer. It would mean less disruption in the house at one time.

why do you need supply and feed manifolds? I would have thought you just connect the usual flow and return to each feed manifold or have I got this wrong!

 

[BlueLoo]

It does make sense, I’m in IT so I make the comparison between moving from ring networks to star networks.


I’m contemplating whether I do the manifolds myself as I sort each room up and then get the tank&boiler fitted by an engineer. It would mean less disruption in the house at one time.

why do you need supply and feed manifolds? I would have thought you just connect the usual flow and return to each feed manifold or have I got this wrong!

It's like electricity where you have a potential difference between two points. You need a supply and return circuit (push pull).

Draw it out. You'll soon see it clearly enough.

Putting a tank and actuated valve in yourself is easy. (I just changed mine recently).

The hard bit is getting the design and configuration right.
I'd argue with only a bit of thought. You'd do much better than a bog std plumber who hasn't looked past the plumbing course he did as an apprentice 20 yrs ago lol.

I've effectively completely redesigned and reconfigured the abomination of a system the plumber and his cowboy electrician put in my house.

Even if you let a company do this for you, learning how it can or should be done will stop those cowboys riding your horse.

In fact, before you sign up for anything, get the pros on this site to sense check whats going in

Best of luck.

 

[b21playa]

Thanks for that. I will draw out and post back.

I would rather do what I can myself as previous experiences have been too many quick cowboy jobs to get it done, to only find out things are wrong. Doing if I do things myself I take take to ensure it’s all correct, I’m not maximising profit.

What happens is you want some radiators like towel rads without thermostat?

also thinking where there are multiple radiators in a room rather than having a smart trv for each radiator, would it be better to control each zone with a room thermostat instead, like ufh?

 

[BlueLoo]

Thanks for that. I will draw out and post back.

I would rather do what I can myself as previous experiences have been too many quick cowboy jobs to get it done, to only find out things are wrong. Doing if I do things myself I take take to ensure it’s all correct, I’m not maximising profit.

What happens is you want some radiators like towel rads without thermostat?

also thinking where there are multiple radiators in a room rather than having a smart trv for each radiator, would it be better to control each zone with a room thermostat instead, like ufh?

If you don't want to control a rad, then remember that the circuit supplying it will energise it every time is goes on (ie when the boiler is on).
For the sake of it just valve them all. One nice thing this does is that if you are having a bath or shower, you can boost that bathroom direct from the rad. I use this all the time. I get a nice warm bathroom and warm towels when i want then. Not when i dont need them.

As for multiple rads in a room, you add a room stat. The stat becomes the master, the rad valves become the slaves. (At least for Wiser which works great).

I have a room stat in the lounge. It is great there because the rad head is buried behind the sofa. Whilst this is a problem for normal trvs (restricted location), with the room stat, its the stat which does the room monitoring. The valve just does what it is told too.

 

[b21playa]

If you don't want to control a rad, then remember that the circuit supplying it will energise it every time is goes on (ie when the boiler is on).
For the sake of it just valve them all. One nice thing this does is that if you are having a bath or shower, you can boost that bathroom direct from the rad. I use this all the time. I get a nice warm bathroom and warm towels when i want then. Not when i dont need them.

As for multiple rads in a room, you add a room stat. The stat becomes the master, the rad valves become the slaves. (At least for Wiser which works great).

I have a room stat in the lounge. It is great there because the rad head is buried behind the sofa. Whilst this is a problem for normal trvs (restricted location), with the room stat, its the stat which does the room monitoring. The valve just does what it is told too.

So pressing boost on the smart head would get it to fire the boiler?

Sounds like trv’s for each maybe easier. Was reading some reviews about the wiser kit, people were having some issues in larger homes due to it being based on rf rather than wifi. Do you know of any alternatives and also where the manifolds can be purchased from as not a lot of info out there that I could find

 

[BlueLoo]

So pressing boost on the smart head would get it to fire the boiler?

Sounds like trv’s for each maybe easier. Was reading some reviews about the wiser kit, people were having some issues in larger homes due to it being based on rf rather than wifi. Do you know of any alternatives and also where the manifolds can be purchased from as not a lot of info out there that I could find

I read those reviews as well. Be aware that wiser now have mesh technology in the heads, so don't base your judgement on old reviews. Wiser has smart plugs for extending range. My semi d hasn't needed one though.

Lots of other systems out there. Its the principal you want to be happy with 1st. After that. Choose the manufacturer to suit your needs.

As for boost. Yes. You twist the head, the head tells the controller it needs heat. The controller tells the boiler. Simple really

 

[b21playa]

I read those reviews as well. Be aware that wiser now have mesh technology in the heads, so don't base your judgement on old reviews. Wiser has smart plugs for extending range. My semi d hasn't needed one though.

Lots of other systems out there. Its the principal you want to be happy with 1st. After that. Choose the manufacturer to suit your needs.

As for boost. Yes. You twist the head, the head tells the controller it needs heat. The controller tells the boiler. Simple really

This does sound like exactly what’s needed as the pipework in my system is very old and long runs in old imperial 15mm equivalent.

I’ll get some drawings put together and come back. I need to keep costs down as I need to do the same with electrics as well as general renovation.

Thanks again, I will be back with some plans

 

[BlueLoo]

This does sound like exactly what’s needed as the pipework in my system is very old and long runs in old imperial 15mm equivalent.

I’ll get some drawings put together and come back. I need to keep costs down as I need to do the same with electrics as well as general renovation.

Thanks again, I will be back with some plans

My comments are just opinion and should be treated as such. Do your own research, etc. etc. Blah blah....

I do like to be able to do stuff yourself. There is a great sense of achievement you get with it

Best of luck.

 

[b21playa]

Do you have any links to manifolds? All the ones I’ve seen are 16mm for underfloor heating

thanks in advance

 

[BlueLoo]

Do you have any links to manifolds? All the ones I’ve seen are 16mm for underfloor heating

thanks in advance

I have these:

https://www.mcmahons.ie/manifold-4-port-3-4-x-1-2

Plenty of other versions, sellers etc.

 

[b21playa]

I have these:

https://www.mcmahons.ie/manifold-4-port-3-4-x-1-2

Plenty of other versions, sellers etc.

These are imperial rather than metric sizing

 

[oldbutnotdead]

You can make your own manifolds easily enough- a load of 22-22-15 Ts will do it. Bit bulkier than a bought one though...there are many pushfit plastic manifolds available but I personally don't like using pushfits in inaccessible spaces.

 

[b21playa]

You can make your own manifolds easily enough- a load of 22-22-15 Ts will do it. Bit bulkier than a bought one though...there are many pushfit plastic manifolds available but I personally don't like using pushfits in inaccessible spaces.

I’m guessing you only need manifold for flow and returns can be combined?

also need to find feed manifolds that use 15mm pioe

 

[BlueLoo]

I’m guessing you only need manifold for flow and returns can be combined?

also need to find feed manifolds that use 15mm pioe

I think it's best to manifold both feed and return. The flow profile is much better.

As for size, perhaps choose your system construction 1st and find your fittings to suit. PEX/Compression was std stuff in Ireland until recently. Dunno what it is in the UK.

This looks a good site and the photo diagram explains the principal very well.

https://www.maincor.co.uk/plumbing/manifold-plumbing-systems-2/