Tado smart thermostat setup - unsure if suitable

[Ramdalf]

Hi, I'm new to the forums, but suspect I'll be posting here frequently over the coming months as I get to grips with my new home!

One of my first priorities is to install a smart thermostat system. I currently have a system boiler (Main Eco Elite 24) along with an unvented hot water cylinder. There are two heating loops - one for radiators, and another for underfloor heating in the kitchen / diner. This is the current controller setup:

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It appears a conventional timer unit is controlling heating and hot water separately, but downstream of that, the heating is then further gated behind two wireless controlleres - one for the radiators, and one for the underfloor heating.

My first preference is to replace all of this with a Tado based system, however, their support team haven't filled me with confidence that it will be compatible, as they don't seem to understand my setup. As far as I can tell, Tado recommends:

- To control underfloor heating, you need a wired thermostat, and can then use their TRVs to control the radiators. I can get wiring fitted for this, so that's not a dealbreaker
- To control hot water, you need a wireless thermostat

This seems to be contradictory, as I'm not sure if there is a setup that can control the underfloor heating, radiators, and hot water control at the same time.

It would be good to get peoples advice on this, espeically if anyone has had any success with a similar setup to mine. Otherwise, it's looking like something like the Honeywell Evohome which seems better geared around more complex setups may be a better option.

 

[ericmark]

Main consideration for heating systems seems to be speed, the idea being only to heat as and when required, underfloor heating is at best slow to respond, however this does not stop the idea of having an Eco and Comfort setting so underfloor maintains the Eco and some other system sets the Comfort setting, a fan assisted radiator can boost to comfort very fast.

But without the ability to use infrared or fan assisted to boost the temperature fast, the whole idea of smart heating is really not an option. Simple timed may work, heating set to come on at 4 pm ready for arrive home at 6 pm may well work, but any geofencing needs much faster response times, which UFH can't do, in the main UFH great for an old persons home, but not really much good for people who are away from their home for an unscheduled amount of time.

 

[Ramdalf]

Thanks for the reply. For what it’s worth, geo-fencing isn’t especially relevant for me - for sure it might be some thing I’d use situationally, but not generally. The UFH area is the main living area, where I’ll be maintaining a decent temperature and boosting a degree or two during the times I’m awake. Some smart heating systems can help with this, by allowing you to set a temperature to reach by a certain time, rather than to come on at a certain time. Given the lead time for UFH I’d expect this to be particularly useful, especially if the system is using the weather and learning to adapt the time to turn on.

So thanks for the advice - there’s a couple of things to think about in future (I like the idea of an IR boost to supplement the UFH), but I don’t think it answers the question I asked.

 

[ericmark]

UFH tends to use relay boxes like this to integrate the two systems, the idea is the water in the UFH circulates, and as the water cools it is topped up with new heated water, as aim is to keep the UFH to 27°C but the radiators are at 60 - 70°C depending how set up.

The word "Smart" seems to be used for anything which connects to the phone, as you say systems like Drayton Wiser have TRV's which do work out how long it takes to heat the room, and start heating so room is to temperature at the time set.

The Nest Gen 3 thermostat was also claimed to do this, useless really as only controls one room, but that is besides the point, I used Nest Gen 3, and the problem is if door left open or closed, as this changes the heat up time, so it can never learn as the parameters are changing all the time. With Nest one sets Eco and Comfort temperatures so in my case 17°C and 20°C but over night I have minimum temperature set to 15°C, which means going out at night can trigger a raise instead of fall in temperature. But since one does not tend to look when out what the temperature is, not some thing I have checked on. I have switched off nearly all the "Smart" features of Nest Gen 3, as each one seems not to do what I want.

UFH normally has a set up something like this showing circulation pump and valves, you can replace the heads with some thing like this allowing control of each section, but there are so many small variations on how UFH is set up, it gets hard to follow all the options, I have seen where a standard radiator has a standard TRV head and the return from the radiator goes into the UFH idea is the radiator cools the water enough, but it is rather a Heath Robinson set-up.

The controls for central heating can cost £1000, but in the main we use near enough engineering and reduce the cost, we have had UFH for a long time, but the Hypocaust fell out of favour when the Romans left, but the limitations of the heat pump has caused a return to the system, as the circulating water only needs to be 30°C, but this only really works if whole system runs at 30°C, if you want DHW you need 60°C so the heat pump ends up heating the water up to that anyway.

Since yours is a new build likely OK and has all the insulation required, but when we went house hunting we rejected home with UFH as so many are fitted without the insulation required, and no real way unless pictures taken of the installation of knowing if insulation fitted or not, so I rejected homes to be on the safe side.

Our last house we were paying around £750 a year for gas, modern double glazing, cavity wall insulation, and a loft full of junk so that insulated the loft as well as the insulation under the flooring, so we moved to this house, must be nearly twice the size, no cavity wall insulation, very old thin double glazing, loft half insulated other half boarded, and the fuel bill has dropped to £500 per year for oil, paid yesterday.

OK every room has programmable TRV heads, but not really set, so not a clue why the bill has dropped, expected to pay more. We are slowly replacing doors and windows, but to date only changed one patio door, we have the option of an open fire, and loads of wood around, but never lit it.

Had the same with mothers house, lower bills than expected, I think the open plan of our old late 70's house was not good for heating, and every home is different, and we tend to forget that, and give advice based on our own home. Mothers house the bay windows was the problem, they really caught the sun, so the living room could rocket in temperature, so needed a heating system with a fast response time, we also catch the sun, but not to same extent, at least not in winter, so speed not so important.

 

[Taylortwocities]

It’s always surprising (at least to me) how many people take a working heating system and then wait until mid-winter to start rewiring it!

Stop! Wait until May.