Terminal blocks inside a metal double insulated ceiling light

[A and E]

Hoping to wire a metal double insulated light fitting in our house. At present wires come through a small hole drilled through a ceiling beam into a 'standard rose base' (picture). There is no feasible way to get into the space above the beam - it's about the only part of the house not covered by the attic - so I can't go up and put a box in there and drop a single wire back through.

Should I reconnect the wires on the rose onto separate terminal blocks and place them inside the METAL (non earthed) light fitting...? I was thinking of the option of using gel block covers for the terminal blocks placed inside the fitting..Never used these before.

I don't want to have to put a box on the beam with a connector inside either. It wil Lowe the light too much and obstruct an access door.

Any thoughts appreciated. Cheers.

 

[Echo the husky]

You will struggle, Astro lighting is crap with a capital C and these lights are only designed to be connected to a small 2 core flex, something not found in fixed lighting. Any wiring you install in to the fitting must be fully enclosed to class 2 standards, that means all the connectors and all the wires need to be inside an insulated enclosure. Don't use gel filled enclosures as that will make a right mess for the next person.

There doesn't look to be much room in that fitting for all those wires. I would recommend returning the fitting from where you got it, and exchanging it for something else, ideally one that doesn't have Astro printed on the box.

After struggling time and time again, I now outright refuse to fit any of their products.

 

[deadshort]

Yes, this one of the disadvantages of the 'loop in' system too many connections. As has been advised, change that fitting for one with a circular fixing box (fairy common), and a bit more space!

DS

 

[flameport]

Another option is to remove the useless terminal block supplied, forget about the thing being double insulated, drill a hole in one of the side flanges and attach an earth terminal.
You can then fit the wires in with normal connectors and no need for oversized enclosures or covers.

Of course any warranty will not be applicable and such changes are not approved by the manufacturer. However as it's Astro stuff that won't matter at all.

 

[deadshort]

Mm, thanks for the Astro warning gents

DS

 

[A and E]

Thanks for all the advice, gentlemen. We have learned today that Astro are less than enthusiastically recommended. Wondered why someone was selling a load new and unused on fleabay...

Sadly, I think I am stuck with the fitting. Cost and Mrs Site Manager say so. I had considered the earthing option already and wondered how the regs stand on earthing something the manufacturer sells as double insulated. The easiest option seemed to be the gel 'blocks' over the terminals as this would seem to keep it all double insulated (I think..!). I take Husky's point/experience of the mess caused, but I suspect I will be the 'next bloke', if there ever was one..

If I go down the route of class 2 insulation for the terminal blocks, is there a better strategy than gels? The boxes made by chocblock are HUGE. The gel blocks are bearly bigger than the terminal blocks and I should be able to squeeze a few in the body of the light. Why can I not find small plastic cases such as the one fitted in this light (that apparently double insulate...).

Again, thanks for all your advice.

 

[deadshort]

Well, no worries, that fitting we need replacing sooner that Mr site manager thinks

DS

 

[sparkwright]

But presumably one would need to sheath the individual cores if they don't go fully into an enclosure.

Brown and blue sleeving and insulation tape would seem a solution, but unfortunately not.

Wait for the uproar.

The thing with that light fitting is someone has gone to the trouble of making it double insulated (Class 2), when an earthed metal fitting (Class 1) would have in fact been easier for all concerned.

 

[sparkwright]

Can you keep the rose where it is, with the pendant removed, and fish a cable through the back of the rose to a new, nearby location?

 

[A and E]

Sparkwright,
Your suggestion on the rose maybe a good way forward. However, your comment on the double sheathing of cores made my eye drifted to the other end of the internal light parts. Having been focused on the double insulated 'box' I hadn't really paid much attention to what was going on elsewhere.

I would be interested in folks thoughts on the cores at the other end of this 'double insulated' product. I'm not an electrician, but is this really double insulated?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

No.

Report it to Trading Standards.

They will want the light to examine/as evidence, so you'll have to replace it, I'm afraid.

 

[sparkwright]

View attachment 100506 Sparkwright,
Your suggestion on the rose maybe a good way forward. However, your comment on the double sheathing of cores made my eye drifted to the other end of the internal light parts. Having been focused on the double insulated 'box' I hadn't really paid much attention to what was going on elsewhere.

I would be interested in folks thoughts on the cores at the other end of this 'double insulated' product. I'm not an electrician, but is this really double insulated?

Didn't notice - as you say, inside the light there are areas of single insulated wires.

Hmmm, not very good is it?

Earthing the fitting (correctly) does seem the only way to use that fitting, though no doubt you will breach all kinds of guarantees.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Is the part which has the label really metal?

 

[A and E]

Thought I'd give some closure to both me and this thread. Thanks for all your comments and help. Subsequent to these discussions, I contacted Astro regarding my query on the visible core wires. They replied to assure me that the visible cores are actually already double insulated.

After much swearing, fiddling and general frustration I decided the only safe/ easy course was to follow Sparkwright's suggestion and feed a cable from the original rose though the side of the new Astro fitting. Luckily I don't have to even drill the fitting and the end panels screw off.

In answer to Impudence's question, yes all the casing is powder coated metal.

Thanks again, gents!

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

They replied to assure me that the visible cores are actually already double insulated.

I think we believe they are lying!