Testing underfloor heating

[mandm65]

mandm65, there are three separate loops of pipes going back to the manifold and I believe each loop is around 60m long. Because it is all one area to be maintained at the same temperature, I believe the builder/plumber is installing only one thermostat, so I guess this means we have one zone.

I'm not sure where the best place is for the thermostat, I'm leaving that to the builder/plumber, but my suspicion is it will go on the wall to the right of the photo as the garage is on the other side of this wall, which is where the manifold will be installed. It will therefore be easier for him to fix it to this wall and run the cables to the manifold, rather than fit it on any other wall, although I have concerns that this wall will get sun from the bi folding doors. I think the best wall may have been the outside wall between the two bi-folding doors on the left of the photo, but it would be much more difficult to run a cable to that thermostat now that the plasterboard is in place.

Thanks for the update, interesting that your builder/plumber will only want to have one zone, we have suggested the space to be divided in to 3 zones with each zone has its own thermo/timer etc. We are then hoping to have some sort of smart solution to control these zones using the smartphone/tablet etc.

Do you know what kit he is installing? I have not discuss this option with my builder yet but it would help to know when we discuss this.

On a separate note we are also going for bi-fold doors as well as roof lantern so it will be mega important for us to ensure the thermos are located at the right place.

Keep us posted if you can.
cheers

 

[Milleniumaire]

I did ask the builder which kit he was using but he said he simply purchased it from his supplier, so I didn't get a brand name or anything.

I'll see if I can find any literature or anything in the box containing the manifold.

Our space is a large area around 45 metres square, which will comprise of kitchen, dining and sitting areas. Because its all open plan, there didn't seem any point in having more than one thermostat, or was it that only one thermostat came with the kit, so the builder talked me into thinking that more than one thermostat would be pointless

 

[Norcon]

mandm65, there are three separate loops of pipes going back to the manifold and I believe each loop is around 60m long. Because it is all one area to be maintained at the same temperature, I believe the builder/plumber is installing only one thermostat, so I guess this means we have one zone.

I'm not sure where the best place is for the thermostat, I'm leaving that to the builder/plumber, but my suspicion is it will go on the wall to the right of the photo as the garage is on the other side of this wall, which is where the manifold will be installed. It will therefore be easier for him to fix it to this wall and run the cables to the manifold, rather than fit it on any other wall, although I have concerns that this wall will get sun from the bi folding doors. I think the best wall may have been the outside wall between the two bi-folding doors on the left of the photo, but it would be much more difficult to run a cable to that thermostat now that the plasterboard is in place.

Thanks for the update, interesting that your builder/plumber will only want to have one zone, we have suggested the space to be divided in to 3 zones with each zone has its own thermo/timer etc. We are then hoping to have some sort of smart solution to control these zones using the smartphone/tablet etc.

Do you know what kit he is installing? I have not discuss this option with my builder yet but it would help to know when we discuss this.

On a separate note we are also going for bi-fold doors as well as roof lantern so it will be mega important for us to ensure the thermos are located at the right place.

Keep us posted if you can.
cheers

His builder/plumber is quite correct.
You cannot have separate zones in a single space with separate thermostats conflicting each other.

If you had two radiators in the same room would you want separate thermostats and zone valves turning them on and off?
Of course you wouldn't.
Unless you wanted to play with your self on some silly phone.
I pity installers who have to bend over backwards to customers like you.
Though you might get one on horse back who leaves you with a real bodge. Designed of course by you.

Some of the more learned installers will quite correctly set up each floor as a single zone on the larger properties where top notch wc is being deployed.
Or in the case of bungalows, bedroom and living space being 2 zones max.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Oh Jesus - I'm finding myself agreeing with Nobcorn.

How much have i had to drink?

 

[Milleniumaire]

mandm65, the make of the heating system is Wunda (http://www.wundafloorheating.co.uk/).

Having just looked through the box of underfloor heating goodies that the builder has left on site, I've just realised the single thermostat is actually wireless. He kept that from me!!!!

I'm just off to the supermarket to buy a bucket load of batteries.....

 

[Richardthe3rd]

I also agree with Norcon. I wonder if the 'Builder' has addressed the other issues I pointed out??

 

[mandm65]

mandm65, the make of the heating system is Wunda (http://www.wundafloorheating.co.uk/).

Having just looked through the box of underfloor heating goodies that the builder has left on site, I've just realised the single thermostat is actually wireless. He kept that from me!!!!

I'm just off to the supermarket to buy a bucket load of batteries.....

Milleniumaire Thanks for the link/info, seems like a decent kit, we just have to wait little while for our kit.
Faced with tricky situation, while the new build is concrete based, the existing floor area is timber suspended floor, unsure how he is going to keep the floor levels same?

On reading the advise above we need to think again on multi-zone option!

 

[Milleniumaire]

I also agree with Norcom (about multiple thermostats, not that phones are silly or that installers bend over backwards for customers).

 

[Agile]

It is "normal" to have 75mm or 100mm insulation under the UFH.

That does not come on a "roll" but on large flat sheets!

My friend has 26 different zones on his UFH. Seven of his zones are in the toilets!

Sounds as if you do not have weather compensation! One wonders how much overshoot you will have before the wireless room stat turns off!

Tony

 

[Milleniumaire]

We had exactly the same issue. Our existing kitchen floor was suspended timber and originally the plan was for the kitchen extension to also be suspended timber, however, the builder gave us the option to have a solid floor in the existing kitchen AND the new extension. He strongly advised NOT to mix suspended and concrete when using underfloor heating in the same area. It did cost us a little more as he had to remove the existing kitchen suspended timber floor and pay for more concrete, but I was well aware that underfloor heating gives better results on a solid floor with a screed finish, rather than using the various offerings on timber floors.

Hopefully, this better solution will save us on heating costs in the long term, but this isn't really something that can be quantified.

 

[Milleniumaire]

My existing heating system does have a weather compensation thermostat outside and this is controlled through a Vaillant VR 65 controller and I have wondered if it would be possible for the manifold pump to be connected up to this, but I suspect unless the plumber doing the connections has a good knowledge of Vaillant products, he may not be capable of understanding this system. I will talk to him when he turns up, which may be tomorrow.

I have noticed a big difference in the way our current Vaillant system works (condensing system boiler, unvented cylinder, weather compensation, controller) compared to our previous "basic" combination boiler, where the heating was either on or off. With the Vaillant system the temperatures of the radiators is varied, rather than getting very hot, then cold, then hot again etc.

 

[Agile]

Mixing rads and UFH usually results in some undesired operational difficulties unless the appropriate variable control is added to the UFH which is rarely done when projects are being run by builders.

Tony

 

[mandm65]

It did cost us a little more as he had to remove the existing kitchen suspended timber floor and pay for more concrete, but I was well aware that underfloor heating gives better results on a solid floor with a screed finish, rather than using the various offerings on timber floors.

Thanks for this, i was hoping to read this, good news that your builder gave your the right choice.

 

[mandm65]

Mixing rads and UFH usually results in some undesired operational difficulties unless the appropriate variable control is added to the UFH which is rarely done when projects are being run by builders.

Tony

Hi Tony
We shall be going through this pain soon, perhaps you would like to point out that is there anything we can do to protect our interest to ensure that appropriate variable control is added to the UFH?
cheers

 

[mandm65]

My existing heating system does have a weather compensation thermostat outside and this is controlled through a Vaillant VR 65 controller and I have wondered if it would be possible for the manifold pump to be connected up to this, but I suspect unless the plumber doing the connections has a good knowledge of Vaillant products, he may not be capable of understanding this system. I will talk to him when he turns up, which may be tomorrow.

I would be keen to know the out come of this chat as our builder/plumber has recommended unvented system with Vaillant boiler/hot water tank and the weather compensation thermostat.
cheers