Tony, does the above implies that its ok to split the 'open' area in multiple zones but use the single thermostat?
Testing underfloor heating
- Thread starter Milleniumaire
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Tony, does the above implies that its ok to split the 'open' area in multiple zones but use the single thermostat?
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Haven't had a chance to chat to the buikders plumber and we've been told he won't be available until the end of June! Dissapointing, but there's not a lot we can do about it.
Just to clarify, we already have the Vaillant kit (have been using it for about 4 years now) my question to the plumber will be if he can hook up the underfloor heating to the weather compensation thermostat. I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing to do. Should the underfloor heating be completely separate to the rest of the house?
Just to clarify, we already have the Vaillant kit (have been using it for about 4 years now) my question to the plumber will be if he can hook up the underfloor heating to the weather compensation thermostat. I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing to do. Should the underfloor heating be completely separate to the rest of the house?
Oh thats a bummer! I guess we would have our installation commenced by then so i guess i just have to wait/hope that other experts on this forum can comment on this.
Th reason i was keen for the answer was that we would like to install the Vaillant kit as well (boiler and their hot water tank) together with the weather compensation thermostat. I read on this forum that we must install low loss header to compensate for the different heating demands for the UFH and CH, so it seems quite logical that LLH is installed as the UFH and CH would be running at two different temperatures?
over to the experts
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Our underfloor heating was connected up yesterday. I discussed the options with the plumber, he explained they were:
1. For it to work on the same heating as the rest of the house, which is based on the outdoor weather compensation thermostat and the hall thermostat.
2. To be on its own thermostat.
I suggested he should connect it up the best way possible and he has simply hooked up the manifold flow and return to the existing flow and return, so the water running through the underfloor heating is the same as that running through the rest of the house. In the end he didn't include a thermostat in the kitchen, however, there is a thermostatic valve on the manifold, which he explained can be used to control the temperature of the underfloor heating.
After 17 hours of being on there is NO heat coming through the screed. I would have expected to be able to feel it by now, but this may be due to a couple of things:
- The thermostatic valve on the manifold is turned down to low
- The weather/house interior is quite warm, and the radiators are therefore not very hot, indicating the water being pumped around is not very hot, possibly not hot enough to warm up the screed.
I confess, I'm a little concerned there is no thermostat in the kitchen to control the underfloor heating, but as the response to heating changes are likely to be slow, I suspect we will find a comfortable temperature and it will never be changed.
So far there has been no reduction in pressure in the boiler - a good sign there aren't any leaks
1. For it to work on the same heating as the rest of the house, which is based on the outdoor weather compensation thermostat and the hall thermostat.
2. To be on its own thermostat.
I suggested he should connect it up the best way possible and he has simply hooked up the manifold flow and return to the existing flow and return, so the water running through the underfloor heating is the same as that running through the rest of the house. In the end he didn't include a thermostat in the kitchen, however, there is a thermostatic valve on the manifold, which he explained can be used to control the temperature of the underfloor heating.
After 17 hours of being on there is NO heat coming through the screed. I would have expected to be able to feel it by now, but this may be due to a couple of things:
- The thermostatic valve on the manifold is turned down to low
- The weather/house interior is quite warm, and the radiators are therefore not very hot, indicating the water being pumped around is not very hot, possibly not hot enough to warm up the screed.
I confess, I'm a little concerned there is no thermostat in the kitchen to control the underfloor heating, but as the response to heating changes are likely to be slow, I suspect we will find a comfortable temperature and it will never be changed.
So far there has been no reduction in pressure in the boiler - a good sign there aren't any leaks
Hi,
Unfortunately there's not much to report.
It's now been 17 days since the UFH was connected up to the manifold/boiler and I've not felt any warmth in the screed so far. Having said that the room is very warm, probably due to the number of windows and the warm weather.
I'm not overly concerned as I can feel the pump on the manifold pushing water into the UFH pipes and the thermostat on the manifold is set low. The radiators in the rest of the house are warm at best and usually cold during the day indicating the ambient temperature is 21 degrees or higher and all this probably explains why the floor isn't getting hot.
The screed that was put down was 70 to 75mm thick and we've been advised that it will required 1 day per millimetre to fully dry before tiling. So, this means we can't tile until the end of August, however, given the weather has been warm, tilers have suggested early August should be okay, which will have given it 50 days.
I mention this as a week before the tiling we will slowly ramp up the temperature of the heating over a few days to ensure the heat is getting through the screed and there are no cold patches. We'll then slowly reduce the temperature again and then the floor can be tiled.
So, in early August I should be confident that all is okay. It's a slow process, but we want the screed to dry slowly and naturally to avoid cracks.
One thing a tiler mentioned was the tiles would need to be fitted with an expansion joint. He also suggested that ideally, the screed should also have expansion joints, which it doesn't. The area to be tiled is about 60 square metres, however, part of this is the utility, which doesn't have UFH, so we've asked the builder to install an expansion joint in the doorway between the two rooms as in winter the UFH area will be much warmer than the non-UFH utility floor. The tiler will also fit an expansion joint at the same place.
I would be interested in any feedback on when expansion joints are required in screed as our builder said he's never had to install them and the company that put the screed down obviously didn't feel they were necessary.
Unfortunately there's not much to report.
It's now been 17 days since the UFH was connected up to the manifold/boiler and I've not felt any warmth in the screed so far. Having said that the room is very warm, probably due to the number of windows and the warm weather.
I'm not overly concerned as I can feel the pump on the manifold pushing water into the UFH pipes and the thermostat on the manifold is set low. The radiators in the rest of the house are warm at best and usually cold during the day indicating the ambient temperature is 21 degrees or higher and all this probably explains why the floor isn't getting hot.
The screed that was put down was 70 to 75mm thick and we've been advised that it will required 1 day per millimetre to fully dry before tiling. So, this means we can't tile until the end of August, however, given the weather has been warm, tilers have suggested early August should be okay, which will have given it 50 days.
I mention this as a week before the tiling we will slowly ramp up the temperature of the heating over a few days to ensure the heat is getting through the screed and there are no cold patches. We'll then slowly reduce the temperature again and then the floor can be tiled.
So, in early August I should be confident that all is okay. It's a slow process, but we want the screed to dry slowly and naturally to avoid cracks.
One thing a tiler mentioned was the tiles would need to be fitted with an expansion joint. He also suggested that ideally, the screed should also have expansion joints, which it doesn't. The area to be tiled is about 60 square metres, however, part of this is the utility, which doesn't have UFH, so we've asked the builder to install an expansion joint in the doorway between the two rooms as in winter the UFH area will be much warmer than the non-UFH utility floor. The tiler will also fit an expansion joint at the same place.
I would be interested in any feedback on when expansion joints are required in screed as our builder said he's never had to install them and the company that put the screed down obviously didn't feel they were necessary.
Thanks for the input, assume your builder went with traditional screed hence the longer drying time. We are contemplating to go with the modified screeds like FlexiDry for reducing the drying time. From what I have read thus far they are ideal for under floor heating systems, helps to overcome the general compaction, cracking and curling issues, and also improves the energy efficiency by acting as an efficient heat conductor.
Hummm expansion joint, yep would be nice to get feedback from the experts.
Domestic rooms don't normally need an expansion joint.
The doors will often have joints with cement type screeds so sleeving on the f&r is important.
If the screed layers don't stop at the doors then crack inducers must be fitted.
Long hallways? Then expansion joints need to be considered also!
The doors will often have joints with cement type screeds so sleeving on the f&r is important.
If the screed layers don't stop at the doors then crack inducers must be fitted.
Long hallways? Then expansion joints need to be considered also!
There is insulation all around the edge of the room, and the builder has now cut out some of the sand/cement screed in the doorway between the kitchen/sitting/dining area and the utility and placed some insulation in the doorway. This separates the utility floor, which doesn't have UFH (it has a radiator) with the kitchen/sitting/dining area, which does have UFH.
As you can see from the plan, the length of the utility and kitchen/sitting/dining area is 10m, with the utility being around 2m wide
View media item 79275
As you can see from the plan, the length of the utility and kitchen/sitting/dining area is 10m, with the utility being around 2m wide
View media item 79275
Well, I'm now at the point of testing the floor will heat up as the screed has had plenty of time to dry out.
I've been trying to get some heat in the floor for 3 days now, but failed javascript:emoticon('')
I think the problem is that it's Summer, so the air temperature is warm (no surprise there). I specifically waited until the warm spell we've just had came to an end and the temperatures fell a little as I couldn't bare the thought of the heating being on for a number of days!
I could do with some pointers, here's my heating setup:
- Vaillant ecoTEC plus 637 System condensing boiler
- Radiators throughout the house with thermostatic valves
- New underfloor heating in kitchen/sitting/dining extension (no radiators)
- Vaillant VRC 430 weather compensator & thermostat in the hallway (this is the only thermostat in the house, apart from the small weather thermostat outside)
- Thermostat on the UFH manifold (in the garage)
I'm aware that I need to crank up the heating slowly, day by day. Up until early this week, the thermostat on the manifold was on setting 1 of 5 and the hall termostat is usually set to 21 during the day and 15 at night.
I have seen the pump working on the manifold, so I know water is being pumped around the UFH. The problem I'm having is being able to turn up the heating enough to get warm/hot water into the UHF, which is fed the same water that is pumped around the radiators throughout the house.
Initially, I tried turning up the manifold thermostat bye a couple of notches to 3 and didn't touch the hall thermostat. However, this had no affect as the rest of the house is warm enough, so it's not often the boiler has to heat water and pump it around the heating system and when it does it tends to be luke warm (from feeling the radiators). So changing the thermostat on the manifold isn't acheiving anything as I believe it is the hall thermostat that is restricting the temperature i.e. keeping it low in the heating system. So, I opened up the manifold thermostat completely (to setting 5 of 5) and turned up the hall thermostat to 24 (from 21) assuming more hot water would be generated. This does happen from time to time as I can feel the radiators getting warmer, then hot for a short time, then cooling down.
Unfortunately, it appears the heating is so effecient that it isn't staying hot long enough to heat the screed up!
Next, I turned the hall thermostat to 26 degrees. Same thing, still not feeling any heat on the floor, although the house is definitely feeling warmer now and the radiators tend to be "luke warm" most of the time, so I've had to start closing off the radiator thermostats.
I've now got the hall thermostat upto 27 degrees and it's programmed to stay at this during the day and to use a backstop of 19 degrees during the night.
The maximum temperature reading I've seen on the hall thermostat is 24 degrees!!!!! It just doesn't appear to be getting warm enough. The hall radiator is quite warm but not hot, but it tends to cool, then warm a little etc. rather than staying warm all the time.
So, I'm now thinking I should rank up the hall thermostat to 30 degrees and see if I can't get some heat into the system in the hope this will start to come through the screed.
Am I doing something wrong? Any ideas?
I don't feel as though I'm really in control of how much heat will be pumped around the UFH, which worries me a little having read that it should be increased 5 degrees per day to max, then reduced by the same amount.
I've been trying to get some heat in the floor for 3 days now, but failed javascript:emoticon('
')I think the problem is that it's Summer, so the air temperature is warm (no surprise there). I specifically waited until the warm spell we've just had came to an end and the temperatures fell a little as I couldn't bare the thought of the heating being on for a number of days!
I could do with some pointers, here's my heating setup:
- Vaillant ecoTEC plus 637 System condensing boiler
- Radiators throughout the house with thermostatic valves
- New underfloor heating in kitchen/sitting/dining extension (no radiators)
- Vaillant VRC 430 weather compensator & thermostat in the hallway (this is the only thermostat in the house, apart from the small weather thermostat outside)
- Thermostat on the UFH manifold (in the garage)
I'm aware that I need to crank up the heating slowly, day by day. Up until early this week, the thermostat on the manifold was on setting 1 of 5 and the hall termostat is usually set to 21 during the day and 15 at night.
I have seen the pump working on the manifold, so I know water is being pumped around the UFH. The problem I'm having is being able to turn up the heating enough to get warm/hot water into the UHF, which is fed the same water that is pumped around the radiators throughout the house.
Initially, I tried turning up the manifold thermostat bye a couple of notches to 3 and didn't touch the hall thermostat. However, this had no affect as the rest of the house is warm enough, so it's not often the boiler has to heat water and pump it around the heating system and when it does it tends to be luke warm (from feeling the radiators). So changing the thermostat on the manifold isn't acheiving anything as I believe it is the hall thermostat that is restricting the temperature i.e. keeping it low in the heating system. So, I opened up the manifold thermostat completely (to setting 5 of 5) and turned up the hall thermostat to 24 (from 21) assuming more hot water would be generated. This does happen from time to time as I can feel the radiators getting warmer, then hot for a short time, then cooling down.
Unfortunately, it appears the heating is so effecient that it isn't staying hot long enough to heat the screed up!
Next, I turned the hall thermostat to 26 degrees. Same thing, still not feeling any heat on the floor, although the house is definitely feeling warmer now and the radiators tend to be "luke warm" most of the time, so I've had to start closing off the radiator thermostats.
I've now got the hall thermostat upto 27 degrees and it's programmed to stay at this during the day and to use a backstop of 19 degrees during the night.
The maximum temperature reading I've seen on the hall thermostat is 24 degrees!!!!! It just doesn't appear to be getting warm enough. The hall radiator is quite warm but not hot, but it tends to cool, then warm a little etc. rather than staying warm all the time.
So, I'm now thinking I should rank up the hall thermostat to 30 degrees and see if I can't get some heat into the system in the hope this will start to come through the screed.
Am I doing something wrong? Any ideas?
I don't feel as though I'm really in control of how much heat will be pumped around the UFH, which worries me a little having read that it should be increased 5 degrees per day to max, then reduced by the same amount.
Surely the outside sensor is what's controlling the flow temperature? The room thermostat could be set to (hypothetically) 50 degrees and the boiler would still have a low flow temperature if it's already warmish outside. Sounds like the heating curve is set low (probably not incorrect since it is still fairly warm outside) that's all. Hence luke warm temperatures!
mandm65, I guess your right and that explains what I'm experiencing.
So, if I change the heating curve that should prompt the boiler to generate more hot water to increase the amount of heat given off by the system and hopefully that will start to warm up the UFH.
So, if I change the heating curve that should prompt the boiler to generate more hot water to increase the amount of heat given off by the system and hopefully that will start to warm up the UFH.
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