The crumbustion chamber?

[megawatt]

This is not defined in statute and there needs to be case law in circumstances such as this.

I'm not aware of any case brought against a DIY'er ... Happy to be proved wrong though

MW

 

[Alarm]

What says your certificate covers a badly made joint?

 

[Alarm]

I am not saying ALL diy people can not be competent. My question is how on earth could a diyer prove his competance in court if he has caused a death or injury to someone?

I would have thought that it was up to the court to prove that he was incompetent Innocent until proven guilty Which means that a legal definition needs to be produced, which upon reflection there must be somewhere (surely??) other than a dictionary

Not quite true, even with Electrics. You are guilty and have to prove you were innocent and competent.

 

[minion]

My question is how on earth could a diyer prove his competance in court if he has caused a death or injury to someone?

Isn't this something of a circular argument? If he had caused a death or injury due to his poor workmanship or just getting something plain wrong, then surely he would not be competent? If he was competent, he wouldn't have made that mistake to have caused the death or injury in the first place, so he wouldn't be in court.

You seem like a decent enough bloke and I think we shall just need to agree to disagree.

I actually get what you are saying I just don't personally think that someone without the correct training and certification can be competant.

 

[minion]

What says your certificate covers a badly made joint?

Hi,

After the installation of the Gas Pipe it would be tested for tightness so you would know if your joints were okay or not.

 

[megawatt]

Minion, training and qualifications have nothing to do with competency.

Competency is the assessment of the actual skill or technique i.e. You have demonstrated that you know how to do something.

Whilst training and certification is often the route for professionals they are by no means the only mechanisms and competency in all walks of life can be achieved without formal training and without holding any qualifications.

You could become a competent golfer without training or qualifications for example but to become a PGA professional would require training and qualifications ... The difference between the professional and the amateur.

If you were competent in the written word you would be getting this by now you know.

MW

 

[holty]

this is a pointless post. did'nt read all 18 pages of pointless ****. but one thing is eveyone goes on about is gas. but the main killer that has to be taken into consideration. is carbon monoxide. the deadliest of them all. no smell like gas etc. thats why most of us gas men now carry an analyser. look at ventilation requirements etc. if you feel confident as a diyer then go out, fork out nearly 5-700 on an analyser that will cost near a ton a year to calibrate to set your boiler up. and do the job. if that dose'nt appeal then shut the **** up.

 

[Alarm]

What says your certificate covers a badly made joint?

Hi,

After the installation of the Gas Pipe it would be tested for tightness so you would know if your joints were okay or not.

Yeah I know, was just seeing if you were awake. Whilst agree we each in our own professions have our quals. A non member wil never get his as hard as us as we should know what we are doing, hence was can charge that little bit higher too

 

[megawatt]

I am not saying ALL diy people can not be competent. My question is how on earth could a diyer prove his competance in court if he has caused a death or injury to someone?

I would have thought that it was up to the court to prove that he was incompetent Innocent until proven guilty Which means that a legal definition needs to be produced, which upon reflection there must be somewhere (surely??) other than a dictionary

Not quite true, even with Electrics. You are guilty and have to prove you were innocent and competent.

Correct, the individual (professional or DIY'er) would need to prove that they understood the regulations, possessed the necessary skills to undertake the task and had the correct tools and equipment.

And, if they could do so, it would not matter a damn if they were a professional or amateur and had passed ACS exams or not.

This is the crux of competency (and this debate) and represents the fact that there are good fitters and bad fitters and good DIY'ers and bad DIY'ers.

MW

 

[cantaloup63]

this is a pointless post. did'nt read all 18 pages of pointless s**t. but one thing is eveyone goes on about is gas. but the main killer that has to be taken into consideration. is carbon monoxide. the deadliest of them all. no smell like gas etc. thats why most of us gas men now carry an analyser. look at ventilation requirements etc. if you feel confident as a diyer then go out, fork out nearly 5-700 on an analyser that will cost near a ton a year to calibrate to set your boiler up. and do the job. if that dose'nt appeal then shut the **** up.

Succinct and yet curiously pursuasive.

Not that I needed convincing, but you convinced me anyway

 

[megawatt]

this is a pointless post. did'nt read all 18 pages of pointless s**t. but one thing is eveyone goes on about is gas. but the main killer that has to be taken into consideration. is carbon monoxide. the deadliest of them all. no smell like gas etc. thats why most of us gas men now carry an analyser. look at ventilation requirements etc. if you feel confident as a diyer then go out, fork out nearly 5-700 on an analyser that will cost near a ton a year to calibrate to set your boiler up. and do the job. if that dose'nt appeal then shut the **** up.

Or ... Hire one ... Or ... Borrow one ... Or leave the canary in for the weekend and see if it's still chirping on Monday.

MW

 

[Paul_C]

Minion, training and qualifications have nothing to do with competency.

Competency is the assessment of the actual skill or technique i.e. You have demonstrated that you know how to do something.

Whilst training and certification is often the route for professionals they are by no means the only mechanisms and competency in all walks of life can be achieved without formal training and without holding any qualifications.

That's my take as well.

I would also point out that in some cases having a particular qualification does not automatically make one competent (except in legal terms if legislation explicitly states that having such-and-such qualification is deemed to make one competent).

I'm not saying that this is, or may be, the case as far as qualified gas fitters are concerned, because I simply haven't ever looked into this field closely enough to have formed an opinion, so I'm not about to start throwing around claims on that subject either way.

But I will certainly stand by a claim that as far as electrical work is concerned, there seem to be far too many people who have passed all sorts of officially, or at least semi-officially, recognized exams but who in no way would I class as competent, because they don't seem to understand some of the most basic principles involved.

So qualifications do not necessarily mean competency, and competency is not automatically conditional upon having qualifications (other than in some legal senses).

 

[sooey]

Or ... Hire one ... Or ... Borrow one ... Or leave the canary in for the weekend and see if it's still chirping on Monday.

Like you'd know what to do with it. Better stick with the canary.

 

[cantaloup63]

So, back to topic... What sort of things do you actually talk about in there?

 

[minion]

this is a pointless post. did'nt read all 18 pages of pointless s**t. but one thing is eveyone goes on about is gas. but the main killer that has to be taken into consideration. is carbon monoxide. the deadliest of them all. no smell like gas etc. thats why most of us gas men now carry an analyser. look at ventilation requirements etc. if you feel confident as a diyer then go out, fork out nearly 5-700 on an analyser that will cost near a ton a year to calibrate to set your boiler up. and do the job. if that dose'nt appeal then shut the **** up.

Or ... Hire one ... Or ... Borrow one ... Or leave the canary in for the weekend and see if it's still chirping on Monday.

MW

I would doubt you would even know how to use it, or what you are even measuring, or how to fix the mixture if the readings are out.

Still, you are more than likely competent because no one has died - YET!!