The end of the NHS

[Lower]

Your intentions were properly interpreted, in my opinion.


You think I need your guidance to find some incidents of racism? You've got to be having a laugh?

I've messaged you privately and i'll just delete my original post.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I've messaged you privately and i'll just delete my original post.

You've left festive liking your punctuation mark.

 

[Lower]

Or no matter the immigration/citizen status of the patient.
That should be a universal principle, free emergency health care for all.


Except it doesn't exist in reality.

The principle of not providing free emergency care is absolutely alien to us, thanks to the NHS.

I accept it is not free, we pay substantial amounts of tax to fund the service. But it is free at the point of use.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Free healthcare for all is an amazing concept that we take for granted in this country.

Except it doesn't exist in reality.

I accept it is not free, we pay substantial amounts of tax to fund the service. But it is free at the point of use.

That's what I said, free health care does not exist in reality, not even to patients not entitled to health care 'free at the point of delivery'.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

When i visited Miami a few years ago i was disgusted to see the number of what i assumed to be homeless people with some serious medical issues that lived on the streets. I watched a policeman 'move on' a man who was face down on the pavement. When he got to his feet it was clear he had some serious medical issues that, for all its faults, the NHS would have treated without question, no matter the financial status of the patient.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...p-clinic-trying-bridge-americas-health-divide
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/04/americans-dental-dentist-teeth-health-insurance

Free healthcare for all is an amazing concept that we take for granted in this country.

And millions of Americans think it is a hateful communist plot, with death panels.

 

[SirGalahad]

However, the NHS is far from perfect, and i don't understand the fear of the private sector being used to supply some of the free healthcare that the NHS provides.

If i understand correctly, GP's get paid per patient, whether they see a patient or not. I'd be interested to know on average how many times per year a person has an appointment with a GP to understand if it is good value for money.

The problem with the private sector contracting out work is that they will only take the low risk higher value work such as knee, hip, opthamology etc. This more valuable work is used to subsidise the less profitable or costly work so if the NHS Hspitals are deprived of this - how can they cover their costs. When you have complications in a private hospital - what do they do? They take you into the NHS hospitals.

So when you reduce the NHS capacity by contracting out - you lose control over reshaping services. It was said a million times you need integrated care - and this piecemail contracting out ends costing more and is less flexbile- the medical staff and administrators knew this but the pig headed politicians were slower on the uptake.

The internal market was a silly idea pushed by the Tories - it creates the wrong incentives. The market system is great but its not the solution to all issues of allocating economic resources.

As to is £150 value for money - I find that hilarious. An older person may see the GP a few times a month. By having a simple formula based on patient numbers its far easer to admin and pay.

But lets take an example where you are paid on the risk profile of the patient. So tell me how are you going to value patient A 65 with diabetes, CKD, diverticulitis with another person who is 75 but with type 2 diabtes, high bp, COPD?

So is going to crunch the data -expensive Actuaries - which will be adding more in admin costs. The US system spends 25% of their costs on admin as they want to cost everything out.

It's the fetishism with all you need to do is charge people and the market system will prevail. It doesn't work in certain situations and industries and best two examples are healthcare and education.

The refrain the NHS is far from perfect - tell me which system is?

 

[SirGalahad]

View attachment 238904

A couple of years ago a republican got into a fight with democrats at a town hall meeting over ACA / Obamacare and was hospitalised only for it to be later known that he had lost his job and then opened up a go fund me page to help with his healthcare costs as he was uninsured.

These people have been so twisted and manipulated they will gladly vote against their own benefit.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

The problem with the private sector contracting out work is that they will only take the low risk higher value work such as knee, hip, opthamology etc. This more valuable work is used to subsidise the less profitable or costly work so if the NHS Hspitals are deprived of this - how can they cover their costs.

It doesnt (shouldnt) work like that. The NHS is not a profit-making machine. Low cost/low risk work does not equal high profit, it just equals low cost. The problem with paying the private sector is that they do make a profit, so low cost work becomes low cost + a bit more when the NHS pays the providers bill.

 

[Brigade77]

Please get it out of your heads that the NHS is free. Don't even mention the words free & NHS in the same post.

It isn't free, you have paid for it & you deserve it.

What you don't deserve is the **** poor NHS we suffer due to the involvement of hedge funds, big pharma & the foul stench of corruption from your MP's in Westminster. When you reduce healthcare to the level of £profits then you enter a dangerous area, a very dangerous area.

If you have a problem that some sections of society may take advantage of our NHS, then your problems do not stem from the fact that you enjoy an excellent & very high cost health service.

Be careful what you wish for & be VERY careful.

 

[Brigade77]

Soshal meedya's opinions don't always reflect the opinions of the real world. This is mostly because the real world stays well away from the nukking futters on soshal meedya. The nutters rule here, their opinion only becomes the norm if that's all you're exposed to.

Many years ago Dork offerred to marry his Canadian cousin, it wasn't that Dork fancied her ginger hair & freckles, it was 'cos she had leukemia & my aunty's employers healthcare package didn't extend to the intensive healthcare she needed. Too expensive you see, & it's only when you need it that you find the need to study that small print in great detail.

We didn't marry, the barriers put in the way of that were phenomenal, & those barriers came from the UK & not from Canada. It was easier for my bestest mate to marry her & bring her over here, & God bless him, he went as far down that path as he could until he himself succumb'd to death.

She died aged 22yrs old for the lack of a course of treatment that cost less than $20k !

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

A couple of years ago a republican got into a fight

That's one of the perennial problems with being a publican.
He should have moved to another pub, and become a re-publican.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

If you have a problem that some sections of society may take advantage of our NHS, then your problems do not stem from the fact that you enjoy an excellent & very high cost health service.

I assume you mean that the problems stem from the people in society who take advantage of the NHS?

Many years ago Dork offerred to marry his Canadian cousin, it wasn't that Dork fancied her ginger hair & freckles, it was 'cos she had leukemia & my aunty's employers healthcare package didn't extend to the intensive healthcare she needed. Too expensive you see, & it's only when you need it that you find the need to study that small print in great detail.
We didn't marry, the barriers put in the way of that were phenomenal, & those barriers came from the UK & not from Canada. It was easier for my bestest mate to marry her & bring her over here, & God bless him, he went as far down that path as he could until he himself succumb'd to death.
She died aged 22yrs old for the lack of a course of treatment that cost less than $20k !

I'm sorry for your loss, but weren't you one of those that tried to take advantage of the NHS?
Don't get me wrong, I think that emergency life-saving treatment should be free for all.
But your behaviour in your second comment totally replicates the attitude to which you object in your first comment.[/QUOTE]