The French .... Again.. poor jersey

[ChrisR]

I thought I'd have a look:
P286 of the agreement made with the EU on that Dec 30th.
https://ec.europa.eu/info/relations-united-kingdom/eu-uk-trade-and-cooperation-agreement_en


Article FISH.10: Access to waters of the Bailiwick of Guernsey, the Bailiwick of Jersey and the Isle of Man
1. By derogation from Articles FISH.8(1) and (3) to (7) [Access to waters], FISH.9 [Compensatory measures in case of withdrawal or reduction of access] and Annex FISH.4 [Protocol on access to waters], each Party shall grant vessels of the other Party access to fish in its waters reflecting the actual extent and nature of fishing activity that it can be demonstrated was carried out during the period beginning on 1 February 2017 and ending on 31 January 2020 by qualifying vessels of the other Party in the waters and under any treaty arrangements that existed on 31 January 2020.
2. For the purposes of this Article and, in so far as the other Articles in this Heading apply in relation to the arrangements for access established under this Article:
(a) "qualifying vessel" means, in respect of fishing activity carried out in waters adjacent to the Bailiwick of Guernsey, the Bailiwick of Jersey, the Isle of Man or a Member State, any vessel which fished in the territorial sea adjacent to that territory or that Member State on more than 10 days in any of the three 12 month periods ending on 31 January on, or between, 1 February 2017 and 31 January 2020;
(b) "vessel" (of a Party)" means, in respect of the United Kingdom, a fishing vessel flying the flag of the United Kingdom and registered in the Bailiwick of Guernsey, the Bailiwick of Jersey or the Isle of Man, and licensed by a United Kingdom fisheries administration;
(c) "waters" (of a Party) means:
(i) in respect of the Union, the territorial sea adjacent to a Member State; and
(ii) in respect of the United Kingdom, the territorial sea adjacent to each of the Bailiwick of Guernsey, the Bailiwick of Jersey and the Isle of Man.

It goes on to describe how disputes would go to arbitration within 2 weeks

 

[Mottie]

So, it’s a bit like those self employed people who under declared their takings for years and then moan when they can’t get what they were getting illegally under the SEIS scheme? Good!

Where are all the defenders of 'the agreement' when you need 'em?

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I thought I'd have a look:
P286 of the agreement made with the EU on that Dec 30th.
https://ec.europa.eu/info/relations-united-kingdom/eu-uk-trade-and-cooperation-agreement_en


Article FISH.10: Access to waters of the Bailiwick of Guernsey, the Bailiwick of Jersey and the Isle of Man
1. By derogation from Articles FISH.8(1) and (3) to (7) [Access to waters], FISH.9 [Compensatory measures in case of withdrawal or reduction of access] and Annex FISH.4 [Protocol on access to waters], each Party shall grant vessels of the other Party access to fish in its waters reflecting the actual extent and nature of fishing activity that it can be demonstrated was carried out during the period beginning on 1 February 2017 and ending on 31 January 2020 by qualifying vessels of the other Party in the waters and under any treaty arrangements that existed on 31 January 2020.
2. For the purposes of this Article and, in so far as the other Articles in this Heading apply in relation to the arrangements for access established under this Article:
(a) "qualifying vessel" means, in respect of fishing activity carried out in waters adjacent to the Bailiwick of Guernsey, the Bailiwick of Jersey, the Isle of Man or a Member State, any vessel which fished in the territorial sea adjacent to that territory or that Member State on more than 10 days in any of the three 12 month periods ending on 31 January on, or between, 1 February 2017 and 31 January 2020;
(b) "vessel" (of a Party)" means, in respect of the United Kingdom, a fishing vessel flying the flag of the United Kingdom and registered in the Bailiwick of Guernsey, the Bailiwick of Jersey or the Isle of Man, and licensed by a United Kingdom fisheries administration;
(c) "waters" (of a Party) means:
(i) in respect of the Union, the territorial sea adjacent to a Member State; and
(ii) in respect of the United Kingdom, the territorial sea adjacent to each of the Bailiwick of Guernsey, the Bailiwick of Jersey and the Isle of Man.

It goes on to describe how disputes would go to arbitration within 2 weeks

Thanks for that.
It does indeed clarify the issue.
The TCA states "more than 10 days" and nature of fishing activity, which could be interpreted as method of fishing.
Jersey have introduced a requirement for 20 or 30 days. And for proof of type of catch.

He said: "I see it as very much an insult to them and they are extremely upset. The criteria that they were given was to prove they have fished in Jersey waters for 10 days. Nothing about what species were caught, nothing about if you've fished for 20 days or 30 days [and having to] prove that."
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57003069
​

As far as Channel Islands being in EU, they have not been official members, but many bilateral co-operations exist, e.g. taxes, Common Travel Areas, goods trade, etc.
But the EU granted them more or less the same level of unofficial access as UK while UK were members.
As they were not members via the UK membership, nor members in their own right, they did not have a vote in the referendum.
The other official and unofficial co-operations continue. However, if Jersey wish to create a full blown diplomatic issue, there might be consequences further down the line for those co-operations.

I hope for all concerned that both parties can settle the issue amicably.

It does seem underhand for the new rules only to be introduced on the day of issuing new licences. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would realise that some early information would have been appreciated.
Maybe Jersey is taking a lead from Boris of leaving important issues to be decided at the last possible moment.

 

[ChrisR]

If I were a French fisherman I'd just keep on fishing. Land the catch in France.
"Fish10" is ridiculously badly written. Phrase after phrase could mean almost anything, and there's no mention of permits or licenses or tracking the boats.

It's something like the NI situation where the Brits have decided to delay filling in all the forms because it's too hard.
The EU are taking legal action over that. Which court, exactly??

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

It's something like the NI situation where the Brits have decided to delay filling in all the forms because it's too hard.
The EU are taking legal action over that. Which court, exactly??

The UK has agreed that the European Commission and the European Court of Justice will have jurisdiction to enforce EU rules in Northern Ireland. However, UK bodies will often be tasked with enforcement duties on the ground.
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/brexit-deal-northern-ireland-protocol​

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

yep the F***** are at it again

threats of blockades , power cuts and general mayhem

Typical F***** tbh . Scoundrels

That's what happens when UK is governed by a lying, cheating buffoon.

 

[sxturbo]

yep the F***** are at it again

threats of blockades , power cuts and general mayhem

Typical F***** tbh . Scoundrels

the french do have a habit of acting like spoilt kids who dont get their own way.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

It does seem underhand for the new rules only to be introduced on the day of issuing new licences. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would realise that some early information would have been appreciated.
Maybe Jersey is taking a lead from Boris of leaving important issues to be decided at the last possible moment.

I read today that one of Jerseys leading fishermen is saying that it has nothing to do with Brexit, and everything to do with the Jersey government being a bunch of incompetent idiots.

 

[sxturbo]

Will that be the Maggie who supported remain in the 1975 referendum, believed passionately that we should be at the heart of a large European trading bloc and was responsible for the Single European Act and the creation of the EU Single Market, or did you have another one in mind? Maggie Smith, the actress, maybe? Or Maggie Alphonsie, the rugby player? How about Maggie Chapman? She is a politician.

maggie like the idea of a single economic market, much did the rest of the uk.

however she did not like the thought of the EEC becoming the EU it has today. "Margaret Thatcher actively opposed the Maastricht Treaty.[2] She declared in a speech in the House of Lords that she "could never have signed that Treaty"


from wikipedia on the treaty versailles "The delegates of the Commonwealth and British Government had mixed thoughts on the treaty, with some seeing the French policy as being greedy and vindictive"

 

[sxturbo]

Jersey government being a bunch of incompetent idiots.

show me a government that isnt...

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I read today that one of Jerseys leading fishermen is saying that it has nothing to do with Brexit, and everything to do with the Jersey government being a bunch of incompetent idiots.

I suspect that they perceived an opportunity to exploit the post Brexit situation to implement new conditions. But they have not honoured the TCA in getting agreement and ratification, not of forewarning the EU of these new conditions.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

the Maastricht Treaty.
the treaty versailles

See the difference?

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

the french do have a habit of acting like spoilt kids who dont get their own way.

Sxturbo does have a habit of resorting to insults when he doesn't get his own way.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

maggie like the idea of a single economic market, much did the rest of the uk.

Apart from the 17.4M people who decided in June 2016 to walk away from it.

 

[Mottie]

Apart from the 17.4M people who decided in June 2016 to walk away from it.

I have no problem with a single market. We buy stuff from them, they buy stuff from us, simple. That’s all I want. It was all the other shît that came with it that people didn’t like. Why must, for example, Greek people have a right to live and work in the U.K. just because we buy oranges from Spain? Why must we live under laws the EU pass just because we buy olives from Italy? There was nothing wrong with the 'Common Market' so why did they change it?