THE PROOF= DIY gas work is almost always illegal

[heatingman]

Driv, I can see you have used "employed" what document is this from and with what other text is it used in conjunction with.

 

[heatingman]

Driv, hse statements are not law, just hot air.

The gas regs are the law, and are written in plan english.
"to work on"......adjust, service fiddle,tinker etc
"competance"... trained qualified & registered.

There is no mention of profit or gain, that was removed, therefore any work in any capacity, employed, self-emploed or other is now covered.

Did you read my reply about dodgy diyer blowing up his house, any thoughts.

The cat has just done the biggest poo on bedroom carpet, will be busy for a while. Go get a cuppa.

 

[WDIK]

while you are in a reading mood, try reading No29-(9)

 

[heatingman]

Qualification and supervision
3. - (1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.
(3) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraphs (1) and (2) above and subject to paragraph (4) below, no employer shall allow any of his employees to carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or service pipework and no self-employed person shall carry out any such work, unless the employer or self-employed person, as the case may be, is a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive for the purposes of this paragraph.

Section 3.(1.2.3) just covers Qualification and supervision, the employment of others is covered by

Duty on employer
4. Where an employer or a self-employed person requires any work in relation to a gas fitting to be carried out at any place of work under his control or where an employer or self-employed person has control to any extent of work in relation to a gas fitting, he shall take reasonable steps to ensure that the person undertaking that work is, or is employed by, a member of a class of persons approved by the Health and Safety Executive under regulation 3(3) above.


But my point is this, is a diy person self-employed as they are doing the work themselves.

What is the legal definition of self-employed?

I'm sure there is a document/amendment out there somewhere with a definition of competance.

 

[puzzlebobble]

either way, if a DIYer were to install a boiler which lead to someone's death would they possibly not be charged with manslaughter?

a professional would be able to demonstrate that he had passed a qualification, had done whatever continued professional training is required of them and presumably be able to provide documentry evidence of the safety checks he performed. Any error would be viewed as being a mistake. As long as there was no suggestion of having acted irresponsibly I don't think they'd be prosecuted.

A DIYer would not be able to show any of that and could be viewed as irresponsible in undertaking the work they did- my guess is that they could well be prosecuted if it could be shown beyond reasonable doubt that the death resulted from the work they did .

 

[WDIK]

HSE PROSECUTES HORLEY GAS FITTER
1998-02-03

HEALTH AND SAFETY EXECUTIVE ON6:98 3 February 1998 HSE PROSECUTES HORLEY GAS FITTER The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) is prosecuting Leonard Arthur Rhodes of Albury Keep, Horley, Surrey, for alleged breaches of health and safety legislation. The prosecution follows an investigation by HSE into an incident at a domestic house in Wallington, Surrey, on the 31 December 1996. It is alleged that Mr Rhodes contravened Regulation 3(3) of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1994 (GSIUR) in that he was not CORGI registered when he fitted the gas appliances. It is also alleged that Mr Rhodes twice contravened Regulation 26(5) of GSIUR in that he left two gas appliances connected to a gas supply when they could not be used safely as the chimney was capped, allowing the fumes to spill back into the premises. The case is due to be heard before The Magistrates' Court, The Court House, Shotfield, Wallington, Surrey. on 5 February 1998 at 2.00pm. Notes to Editors 1. Regulation 3(3) of GSIUR states: "..., no self-employed person shall carry out such work, unless the employer or self-employed person, as the case may be, is a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive....," 2. Regulation 26(5) of GSIUR states: "No person carrying out the installation of a gas appliance shall leave it connected to the gas supply unless the appliance can be used safely." 3. The maximum penalties in the Magistrates' Court for contravention of these Regulations is #5,000 for each offence. 4. If the case is referred to the Crown Court the maximum penalty it may impose is an unlimited fine. 5. You are advised to check the time and date of the hearing with the Court nearer the time to ensure that the case has not been put back. 6. Now that criminal proceedings have commenced your attention is drawn to the fact that the provisions of the Contempt of Court Act apply to this matter. please note this information is issued for the sole purpose of informing the media of an hse prosecution. it is very unlikely that an hse press officer will be in court and the result of any hearing should be obtained directly from the court. issued by Jenny Ellis. Ends # = pounds sterling

source

 

[Breesey]

What is the point of continually repeating this pointless drivel, Drivel? The bit you are about to post again for the 1000th time after this post. You're not proving anything with it, except your misinterpretation of it.

How about responding directly to the reinforced comments from some of the other posters?

 

[heatingman]

Hi Driv,where you been,
Qualification and supervision in the regs covers all and sundry,
Section 4 Duty on employer covers those employed by a business, hence the title.

Can a diyer fit his own gas boiler? and not contravene any laws?

 

[Bahco]

 

[giblets]

British Standards are recommendations only. They do not need to be 100% complied with.

But they are normative documents and, as such, would be refered to in a Court of Law in the absence of any other more relevant information.

 

[heatingman]

But my point is this, is a diy person self-employed as they are doing the work themselves.

He receives no gain (money), so not employed, self or not.

"Gain" is not just money but any sort of gain, as in points, rebates, gifts and savings. By doing the work himself a gain has therefore been obtained, by not paying others a pecuniary gain has been made.

 

[WDIK]

He was working for money and not registered with Corgi. Nothing to do with DIY.

It wasnt there for your benifit, and it was to show the scale of penalties, besides why did you read, surely you already knew about it?

or is it water systems you know everything about?

 

[oakland99]

blimey, this has gone on a while, i tend not to pay to much attention to someone like D D who is one of those annoying people who may not be qualified in a subject but because they have some degree they think it gives them the right to lecture everyone.

Fortunately in my experience of over 25 years as a qualified gas engineer the amount of diy gas workers is getting less, mainly thanks to tv and press who highlight when it goes wrong.

So if its legal or not most sensible diyers know to when to call a qualified person, but there will always be a few who wont, this will never change as long as there are people like D D about who think they know everything, and there always will be.

A good man knows his limitations.

 

[ChrisR]

I get a good number of diyers who have put in their own boiler or a boiler for a relative (which IS illegal), and want it "signed off". Every one has errors, and some fires are downright lethal.

 

[heatingman]

Hey Driv, this is obviously a very emotive subject, have you noticed how high the number of views is, and its climbing rapidly. Not many posting but plenty looking. Do you reckon this is a record.