Theoretical question regarding reversal of staircase....

[The Riviera Kid]

Hi folks,

One thing that's always bothered me about our house is that the stairs start at the back of the living room (it's actually the only house in the street with this layout as far as I can tell). Ideally I'd like the stairs to start at the beginning of the living room so they're just off the hall.

Two reasons for this, one it's not very relaxing having kids constantly tramping across the middle of the living room to get to and from their rooms, and the other reason being that it would make a future loft conversion easier by allowing the stairs to be boxed in and exit directly onto the hall - thus creating a building regulations compliant fire escape route.

I've sketched out a few ideas in rough, and the upstairs would appear to lend itself nicely to the stairs being reversed exactly.

As far as I can tell (although I really need to rip the carpet off and take some exact measurements), the staircase in it's current state would be compliant to building regulations in terms of tread depths and heights, and the angle of pitch.

What I'd like to know is, in the event that we measure up and the staircase in it's current state doesn't comply with building regulations (say the pitch was 1 degree too steep for example), is it breaking any regulations by simply reversing the original staircase in full (ie not replacing/redesigning any of the actual staircase)?

The house itself is a 1990 build and is quite compact, so there's not really any room to have a turn in the stairs or decrease the current pitch.

It's a theoretical question at the moment, as reversing the stairs isn't a huge priority, I'm just thinking in terms of future proofing any alterations we make so that a loft conversion would be easier should we decide to do it in the future.

Thanks in advance.

 

[The Riviera Kid]

In addition to that, as all of the other houses have the layout we're looking to achieve, could I just reverse it without contacting Building Control? (it would leave the same landing space etc as the original orientation)

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Its not overly clear to me exactly what it is you're proposing however provided your stairs adhere to the Building Regulations you can do what you want. It would be odd if your current staircase did not comply with the regs? You have to ask yourself though, if your house is the only one with an opposite handed stair, why this is so! Building Control would technically be required once you make any structural alterations.

 

[noseall]

What I'd like to know is, in the event that we measure up and the staircase in it's current state doesn't comply with building regulations (say the pitch was 1 degree too steep for example), is it breaking any regulations by simply reversing the original staircase in full (ie not replacing/redesigning any of the actual staircase)?
.

If the existing staircase is non-compliant and you try and re-use it in another position then the staircase will be in breach of regulations. Also, all other aspects of the staircase alteration will need to comply with b'regs, such as head clearance, spindle spacing, hand rail heights etc.

 

[The Riviera Kid]

Hi Freddy, I've explained this badly lol.

The stairs are actually in the same position in every house, but for some reason our front door is in a different position (side rather than front). This means we have to walk through to the back of the living room to walk up the stairs. See below.

We'd like the stairs to start at the opposite side next to the door. It seems cheaper to do it this way than demolish and brick up the porch and and front door and rebuild them at the front like all the other houses.

As well as being easier to live with (instantly gets rid of kids running through the room all the time) it also means we could create a compliant fire escape route for a loft conversion at some point in the future.

As for why our house is built this way, I honestly haven't a clue. There's a few things that are different, which I honestly can't explain why - like the 1ft square 2nd kitchen window at the front where everyone else has a full sized window.

 

[The Riviera Kid]

What I'd like to know is, in the event that we measure up and the staircase in it's current state doesn't comply with building regulations (say the pitch was 1 degree too steep for example), is it breaking any regulations by simply reversing the original staircase in full (ie not replacing/redesigning any of the actual staircase)?
.

If the existing staircase is non-compliant and you try and re-use it in another position then the staircase will be in breach of regulations. Also, all other aspects of the staircase alteration will need to comply with b'regs, such as head clearance, spindle spacing, hand rail heights etc.

Yeah, that's what I thought noseall.

The house is a 1990 build, has anything changed in relation to stair treads/hights/pitches since then? If nothings changed I guess it will be currently compliant. I'll get me tape measure out.

Out of interest, do buildings control keep records of the original built layout of a house? This might be a daft question, but one I'd like to know anyway.

 

[theoldun]

Start at the worst bit first.
Quote.
We'd like the stairs to start at the opposite side next to the door. It seems cheaper to do it this way than demolish and brick up the porch and front door and rebuild them at the front like all the other houses.
The way I read your post and view your sketch, it would appear that your existing front door is shown at the foot of stairs in the lower sketch.
If this is the case, you need a minimum of 400mm from the edge of the door to the first tread to comply with building regs. Reason being, that if some one is about to go up stairs or has just come down, they will not be hit by door opening inwards.
This can be overcome if the door was say from a hall or another room, by hanging and swinging the door the other way, but as this is an external door, then your decision.
On your sketch you show 15 risers, where as a normal straight flight only has 13 risers, a 223mm going and a 200mm rise, which gives you a 2600mm floor to floor height and a 2676mm going measured on the flat from bottom riser to top riser.
Any questions, then post rise and going and exact position of door at bottom, and will help you out.
old un.

 

[The Riviera Kid]

Lol yeah I knocked the sketch up quickly, there's not that many steps.

That door is indeed the hall door, which I'd look to take off completely (along with the frame.

In the future I'd be looking to box off the stairs, and put a door approx 800-900mm into the living room opening inwards so the living room is completely seperate from the stairs and thus makes this fire escape route I keep hearing I need for the later loft conversion.

 

[theoldun]

Freddy. You wrote
Building Control would technically be required once you make any structural alterations.
With respect, I can see where you are coming from, but for my education, please point me in the right direction as to where this is in black and white in relation to changing a flight of stairs.
Thank you.
old un

 

[theoldun]

Sorry, I thought I had read your post right, but appears I have not.
Okay, if your treads are 223mm your risers are 200mm with 13 risers, a 100mm sphere can not pass through spindles or rails and you have a minimum of 2000mm head room above pitch line, then your stairs comply with building regs and I see no reason why you can not change them round, although I do not know what work is required on landing, as I do not know lay out.
Is it not possible to move door to other end of stairs?
With regard to forming fire compartment for stairs then Freddy Mercury is the lad to put you right.
old un

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Freddy. You wrote
Building Control would technically be required once you make any structural alterations.

Its not the stairs that need approval but anything that requires alterations to the structure, in this case caused by a change to the stairs.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/en...ibilities/workrespbr/workrespbrapprovalneeded

and here's the official doc from where the info on the link above is taken http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002531.htm#3

 

[The Riviera Kid]

This image may help clear up why I'm looking to maybe reverse the stairs as part of my massive remodelling to-do list lol.

As you can see on the image on the left, the other houses have the stairs starting directly at the end of the hall.

Our stairs are facing the same way, but our porch/front door is at the side, meaning a walk through the living room to get to the stairs - not the best layout.

Theres 12 steps (13 including the landing) btw lol.

 

[The Riviera Kid]

Is it not possible to move door to other end of stairs?

Well it is, but as you can see from the diagrams, that would involve making a new corridor through the kitchen if we're gonna have the fire escape route we want to enable us to have a loft conversion in the future.

I reckon with the stairs reversed, this layout will do the trick (blue being the side of the stairs plasterboarded off and the brown line being the new door position):-

The layout upstairs lends itself quite nicely to being reversed with only a couple of modifcations.

So can you all visualise it now? lol

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

As has already been mentioned, provided your stair complies with the Building Regulations fill your boots.

 

[The Riviera Kid]

Cheers folks, let's hope it's compliant as it is, saves some messing around lol.