Thinking of Wireless Room Thermostat

[D_Hailsham]

I followed it step by step almost right to the end then I noticed that the extended wire going to the relay had come loose. Fixed it and it seems to be working ok now.

That's good news.

However, checking the terminals were done up and no loose wires was the second step in my instructions!

As for changing the stat, it will depend on what type of stat you get. If it's just a thermostat, the existing wires would not need to be changed. Terminal numbers may change, e.g A=2, B=1, but that's all. But if you get a programmable stat you will need to move the wire in T4 of the programmer to TL. If you don't the old programmer times will still be effective and could conflict with the times set on the new stat.

 

[kevin12345]

Hi,
More Problems.
I thought everything was OK but my boiler is not starting up on HW or CH now.
I have been away, I put it on HW tonight, the boiler started up fine at first then after a about 10 minutes it cut out and now I can not get it started on HW or CH. Programmer lights come on but no Boiler.
It may be because I have found a stray black wire behind the programmer that maybe i possibly made come loose when I was chiseling out the wall by the programmer to bury the wires that were coming off the Programmer to the Wireless relay.
Does anybody know where this Black wire should go. My guess is I knocked it out from one of the cable blocks that is behind the programmer backing plate.
To make it easier to understand where it come from I have disconnected the wireless relay and put the wiring back to how it was before I fitted the wireless rely.
The stray black wire comes from a cable that has a blue, brown, yellow/green and 2 blacks.
The rest of the wires coming from that cable are linked as follows.
Blue - newtrual Programmer
Brown - Live Programmer
Yellow/green - Earth Programmer
One Black - cable block behind Programmer that has a yellow wire connected with it from another cable.
Stray Black ?

I should say that it is a conventional Boiler with HW Cylinder and divertor valve set up.

I'm hoping it is only this stupid thing that I have knocked the black wire out and caused a problem

Untitled

• kevin12345
• 7 Jun 2013
• 1

Untitled

• kevin12345
• 7 Jun 2013
• 1

Untitled

• kevin12345
• 7 Jun 2013
• 1

 

[kevin12345]

Hi D_Hailsham
I know I'm a pain but you have been very good to me so far.
Any Ideas?
Would this wire make the boiler not start up or is it something else now?

 

[D_Hailsham]

Almost impossible to work out online what the loose wire does. The more info you can provide the better.

1. Where is other end of the black wire connected?
2. Is it part of the white cable behind the terminal block?
3. If so where do the other wires in the cable connect?
4. If not, where do the wires in the terminal block go?

Using your meter (carefully) does the black wire ever go live? (Measure AC volts to the N terminal.)

If so when? (Try all possible combinations of CH and HW on or off and the room and cylinder stats turned up/down.)

The wiring of the programmer backplate has altered (to be expected). There is now a black wire in the L terminal which wasn't there before. Is this from the same cable as the loose black?

 

[twgas]

I cant see anything connect to the red that is next to the 'yellow and black', if my eyes dont deceive me, the spare black probably goes there but DO tests as D.H says.

The bit earlier about turning old room stat up was before I was sure which terminals the room stat were connected to. Turning it up would make sure power was going to the CH on valve wire.

 

[kevin12345]

1. The white Cable, which is the only wire the same in the Junction box goes to the HW Cylinder. The two Black wires at the Junction Box End go to Terminal 8.
2. Yes the White Cable above the terminal block is where the loose black wire comes from.
3.The other wires from the white cable go as follows
Blue to PN
Brown to PL
Yellow/green to Earth on Programmer Plate
Other Black goes to terminal block that you see( connects to yellow from other grey cable) other wirers from Grey cable are Blue to PN and Red to other terminal block in picture with nothing else.
4. As I just said the terminal Block has one black wire from the white cable connected to a yellow wire from the grey cable. The second terminal block has a red wire from the same grey cable, the blue wire from the grey cable goes to the PN.

I have put the wiring back exactly as it was before I tried to fit the wireless stat. That is not a Black wire going to the live it is the Brown wire coming from the white Cable with the loose Black.

When I put the meter on it is Live without starting anything up

 

[kevin12345]

Untitled

• kevin12345
• 25 May 2013
• 1

Untitled

• kevin12345
• 25 May 2013
• 1

Like I say the Black plate and wires in the Junction box are back to how they were before I installed the wireless stat.

I think the Black must have come out of the Terminal Block at the back of the Programmer plate but I don't know where?

 

[D_Hailsham]

1. The white Cable, which is the only wire the same in the Junction box goes to the HW Cylinder. The two Black wires at the Junction Box End go to Terminal 8.

Terminal 8 also has the orange wire from valve (bottom) and a yellow wire (top). This means either the black or the yellow is the connection to the boiler. The other wire is possibly the pump. (You haven't said which boiler you have - make and model)

What does the other end of the white cable connect to at the cylinder?

That is not a Black wire going to the live it is the Brown wire coming from the white Cable with the loose Black.

My mistake! I meant there is a black connected to N. But I've now seen it in the before and after pics. It had just been moved about when you altered the wiring.

When I put the meter on it is Live without starting anything up

If it connects back to T8 then T8 should also be live and the boiler run.

Is it live when CH and HW are both OFF at the programmer?
What happens if you turn HW ON?

 

[kevin12345]

Sorry, my Boiler is Glowworm Ultimate 40ff

White Cable goes to Thermostat on HW Cylinder

In the Junction Box Terminal 8 only becomes live when HW is switched on, but still no boiler start up.

Anything Else I need to do?

 

[kevin12345]

Any more advise on where the loose wire goes please?

 

[D_Hailsham]

Sorry, my Boiler is Glowworm Ultimate 40ff

White Cable goes to Thermostat on HW Cylinder

In the Junction Box Terminal 8 only becomes live when HW is switched on, but still no boiler start up.

I'm sorry for the delay in replying.

You say that T8 goes live when HW is turned on. Does it go dead when the HW stat is then turned down? If so it means than you have lost the connection from T8 to the boiler.

1. Where does the Yellow in the top of T8 go?
2. Where does the Yellow (grey cable) connected to the black in the terminal block?
3. Where does the Red (grey cable) go?

I don't know if it will help, but here is the standard wiring diagram for a Y Plan (system with mid-position valve). The terminal numbers are not the same as yours. Your boiler should be wired for pump overrun.

Click diagram to enlarge; then right click to save.

View media item 31288

 

[kevin12345]

Thanks for reply

T8 does go dead when I turn HW Stat right down.

1. When you say where does Yellow in T8 go, do you mean the other wires in that Cable? If so Red goes to T9, Blue T2, yellow/Green T3

Your other 2 questions
2. Where does yellow (grey cable) connected to black in terminal block go? How can I tell this?
3. Where does red go (grey cable), do you mean the red from the same cable as in question 2? If so this goes into a seperate terminal block on it's own behind the programmer plate. If you mean up to the junction box, how can I tell this?

 

[D_Hailsham]

T8 does go dead when I turn HW Stat right down.

So either the Yellow or Black in T8 goes to the cyl stat.

When you say where does Yellow in T8 go, do you mean the other wires in that Cable? If so Red goes to T9, Blue T2, yellow/Green T3

I need to know where the other end of this cable goes.

Your other 2 questions
2. Where does yellow (grey cable) connected to black in terminal block go? How can I tell this?
3. Where does red go (grey cable), do you mean the red from the same cable as in question 2? If so this goes into a seperate terminal block on it's own behind the programmer plate. If you mean up to the junction box, how can I tell this?

Is there more than one grey cable behind the backplate?

I can understand your problem answering my questions if the cables disappear into the brickwork. However you will be able to answer these:

There are three cables, two white and one black) coming out of the bottom of the junction box. I know the black one is the motorized valve; it's the other two I'm interested in.

1. Where does each one go?
2. Which terminals are they connected to in the junction box? (they get muddled up and I can't make it out.

There appear to be three white cables going into the wall at the top of the junction box. Is this correct?

Can you confirm how many cables, and what colour, go into the boiler.

 

[kevin12345]

There is 2 grey and one white cable behind the Programmer backplate.

The two white cables from the junction box are

1. HW Stat Cylinder(middle cable) wires are
Brown to T9
Black To T8 (there are two blacks)
Black to T8
Blue to T7
Yellow/green TO T3

2. Circulating Pump wire are
BROWN TO t9
bLUE TO t2
Yellow/green to T3

There is NO white cables at top of Junction Box, they are 3 Grey Cables.

There is 2 Grey cables and 1 white behind Programmer backplate and the White cable is the one that connects to the Boiler.

It is hard to trace cables because Programmer and Boiler downstairs, junction box upstairs in airing cupboard.
Thanks

 

[D_Hailsham]

Kevin12345

Check your Messages.