Tile removal

[cooksey]

I have read several other posts in the forum regarding this and have taken advice i.e. tile on top of existing tiles.

My problem is that the original tiles are from floor to ceiling, which is not something I want to recreate. How can I get around covering the original tiles so that I can paint over them? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Third_Eye]

Plaster over them, though u will need to PVA prior to applying plaster.

 

[gcol]

Why pva? Where's the moisture in the plaster gonna go to if you don't? Nowhere.

 

[Third_Eye]

I think you are asking me a question "gcol". Why Pva ? Pva cos the plaster will crack, blister and fail to adhere if no Pva is used. Or have i read your post incorrectly ?

 

[gcol]

Yep I was asking you a question Third_eye. What makes you think that the plaster will fail to adhere, blister and crack?
If you put pva over a tile it won't cover it cause it's not porous - being water based it'll just bead up.
It's the same situation when you tile on top of tiles - you don't pva the tiles then.
I thought the idea of using pva was to provide a stable background on porous and/or dusty surfaces with which to work. Using pva will give you a background surface that will, to some extent, slow down the suction of water from the plaster/render. Thus allowing it to "go off" properly.
With tiles there'll be no suction at all so this surely won't be a problem.

 

[Third_Eye]

Oky then "gcol" You ask, "What makes you think that the plaster will fail to adhere, blister and crack?" ANSWER, Plaster that is applied over say non-porous glossy tiles without PVA then the Plaster will not adhere to the surface mentioned, though it will adhere to the grouting areas (i.e. the grouting area will hold the plaster on but it will be prone to blister, crack or fail at the non-porous glossy tiled area).................Then you state, "If you put pva over a tile it won't cover it cause it's not porous - being water based it'll just bead up" MY OPINION, PVA is for sticking to non-porous surfaces also. However the PVA must be applied neat (unthinned) in order to stick to such surface........................Then you state, "It's the same situation when you tile on top of tiles - you don't pva the tiles then." MY OPINION, is that tile adhesive is of an slight flexible body and is of different ingredients as of Plaster is.......................Then you state, "
I thought the idea of using pva was to provide a stable background on porous and/or dusty surfaces with which to work. Using pva will give you a background surface that will, to some extent, slow down the suction of water from the plaster/render. Thus allowing it to "go off" properly. " MY OPNION, I totally agree .........................Then you state, "With tiles there'll be no suction at all so this surely won't be a problem." MY OPINION, Tile Adhesive is a different product than plaster !..................Also, certain PVA will stick to non-porous materials such as Glass, Oil Based Paints and Ceramic Tiles. Also certain PVA will stick to porous Plaster, Fabrics, Chipboard and Wood. However, certain PVA does have some limitations though as it will not adhere two non-porous surfaces (i.e. water entrapment). And certain PVA should not be overpainted with paints, as this can cause blistering. NB i have used plaster over tiles and oil based paints many times though i apply an neat PVA coat prior to applying plaster. And there still stuck on those surfaces 10 years on.

 

[gcol]

I'm not after an argument about this 3rd I. The point I'm trying to make is that it's totally pointless to put pva over tiles. I'm not saying that it'll stop the tiles from sticking, what I am saying is that you've been wasting your time for the last 10 years by using pva over tiles.

 

[Third_Eye]

Me either looking for argument but i love a good debate "gcol" Though i believe we all learn from each other. So, with this in mind i will give u a scenario of a job that was done by an plasterer for a lady 15 years ago. Basicly the plaster put on top of her tiles started to blister and crack (15 years later) and she got plasterer back to investigate. I got talking to the plasterer (as i am an decorator to trade) and we talked about the wall and i asked him if he applied a PVA prior to plastering and he said no. Therefore in my conclusion it is apparent that PVA is needed when plastering over tiles. Also, i have been on jobs that when i was papering over emulsioned walls, the plaster started to blister and crack, but only when paste was in contact of the plaster (not the emulsion). Therefore i had to investigate the plaster in terms of what was wrong, and again it is the plaster over tiles. So, i am only speaking from experience when i make my claims, cos experience is priceless.

 

[gcol]

I'm not having that. Just cause the plaster blistered after 15 years you can't say it was because there was no pva used. You have no way of knowing what the plaster would have been like if it was pva'd. I maintain that it's pointless trying to apply pva to the surface of a tile because it won't cover them. As I said, it'll bead.
Regarding the second case you mentioned, could it not be the fact that someone HAD pva'd the tiles and the moisture in the paste softened the pva, causing the plaster to lift?
What we need here is a plasterer.

 

[Third_Eye]

Click on this link "gcol" //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=25846

 

[gcol]

Yeah and what's "easy bond?" That isn't PVA per say.
I'm not saying that there's nothing that will increase the adhesion of plaster to tiles. What I am saying that PVA isn't the substance to do it.

 

[Third_Eye]

'Easy bond' may be an error, i think what "jbondong" meant is 'Thislte Bond-it'. Bond-it is for problems surfaces http://www.british-gypsum.com/immediacy-1479 , as used as an bonding agent just like PVA. Also, PVA can be used also, though only some PVA (as stated). Cos some PVA out there are different PVA products which do different tasks etc............

 

[gcol]

I'm too tired to comment on that last post except to say that it looks like bo**ocks.
You posted a link to back up your argument and it turns out that you haven't even looked at it properly.
You can stop trying to convince me (because I think you're talking pants). If a respectable plasterer can come and say that there's a need to use pva when plastering over tiles and can explain how the pva won't bead and be rendered useless when doing so, then I'd welcome their input.
Third_eye, I'm sure you're a nice guy and all, but to me, about this, you're talking twaddle.

 

[Third_Eye]

Sorry for apparently talking bo**ocks, do forgive me. Also i am not trying to convince no-one. Why are you reffering to me as a nice guy is neither here nor there in terms of this subject. So, just to give your delightful self an professional plasterers piont of view (as i dont understand why if my opnion as it is with Thistle Bond-it, that you will not seem to accept, baffles me), therefore click on this link for clarification of subject discussed http://www.ebuild.co.uk/forums/messages/3414/6576.html?1139145685

 

[gcol]

Ok so it would seem that "Bond it" will do the job. At least we've learned something from this thread.
What I've been trying to get across to you is that pva (you know, the bog standard unibond stuff, the stuff everyone thinks off when you say pva) will bead on a tile and therefore it would be pointless applying it.
You say that "pva can be used also, though only some pva (as stated)." You didn't state that you'd need to use "special" pva when you said "Plaster over them, though u will need to PVA prior to applying plaster."
If Cooksey took your advice, went to B&Q and bought some pva to use before plastering, he'd be posting back here saying that the pva is beading and not soaking in, what have I done wrong? That's what i'm trying to get you to understand.

p.s. I was leathered last night so I appologise about the bo**ocks and twaddle bit.