Tiles Falling off wall

[AFJ1983]

Hi I was wondering if anyone can help me. I have a basement flat and the bathroom is in the middle of the flat. I had the walls re-tiled about a year ago (maybe not that long). Along the long side of the bath the tiles are falling off the wall and taking the plaster/plasterboard witht them. This is only happening on this side of the bath and only effecting about 8 tiles long by 2 or 3 high.

I have spoken to the builder who was incharge of the work and he said this could be damp since its a basement flat. So i checked through the flat and cant find any signs of damp or mould in any rooms. I went to my neighbour and asked to look in his flat as his kitchen shares a wall with my bathroom, now he has no sink or appliances on this wall and everywall in his flat includeing this wall are bone dry and he has never had any problems with damp, mould or leaks and neither of us have ever had any trouble with leaks coming from any flats above. I took my finding to the builder who is now saying that the building i live in has had signs of "Mycelium" 8 years ago and this might cause the problem, I have since found out that Mycelium is underground fungus Can this be the problem? He also said it could be because of "Anti-Capillary Motion" I have googled this phrase for a while now and spoken to a lot of people and cant find out what it means, nobody i have spoken to has ever heard of it and every google search is bringing up medical or veterinarian examples of what capilary motion means but not anti capilary motion. Is he trying to pull the wool over my eyes? Can anyone help?

Thanks

 

[tpt]

if the tiles are still stuck to the plaster\plasterboard the its not your tiles falling off (sorry if this sounds obvious) its your plasterboard falling off!

if thats the case how is the plasterboard fixed to the wall? a lot of the time they are dot\dabbed with plasterboard adhesive onto the bare brick\block of the wall and this is fine if there are enough dabs - the plasterboard adhesive is usually white\cream.

The key question if this is the case is what is the plasterboard adhesive fixed to? direct to brick or block or has it been applied onto the old plaster\render?

photos may help!

either way, i'd suggest your builder should be a bit more helpful...

 

[AFJ1983]

i've been told its plasterboard screwed onto wooden straps wall does feel pretty secure no visible movement in it to suggest the plasterboard has come away, apart from the section that falling off.

The plasterboard where the tiles have started to come away and fall off is soaking wet behind which made me think it was a leak or something getting through the tiles, Can you get grouts that are not suitable for bathroom areas? The fact that my builder being less than helpful makes me think he doesn't want to re-do it or has used inferior materials or not sealed it correctly.

Have you ever heard of that term he used "Anti-Capillary motion" or the "Mycelium"?

 

[Graemevw]

Sounds to me like the seal etween the bath and the tiles has gone, water will get in and seep up behind the tiles blowing off the rows of tiles directly above the bath.

I'd say at least 60% of bathrooms ive re-tiled have had this problem.

How is/was the bath sealed to the wall?

 

[tpt]

if its soaking wet that's the likely cause of the deterioration. the water is most likely to be coming from the bath - do you have a shower over it?

Plasterboard shouldn't really be used in wet areas, unless its tanked (this is a sort of rubber protective coat) as it breaks up like cardboard when wet - as you are finding out.

the big question is the root of the water, if the wall behind the boards are dripping wet, then yes it could be damp (but it would take a lot of it) but my guess is its coming from the bath\shower. does the shower point at these this wall? or is their a window sill that frequently gets wet? if it was damp it would more likely affect a wider area.

Yes there are waterproof adhesives and grouts - this just means they don't break down in water, not that they don't let any through - this is why your builder shouldn't use plasterboard in a wet area - if its a truly wet area, if its just a bath lots of people get away with this just fine.

 

[AFJ1983]

To me the seal around the bath and the wall looked pretty good. Can the seals just go like that? i don't know how good the silicone was that was used i presume you can get some better than others.

Have you ever heard of "Anti-Capillary motion" or the "Mycelium"

 

[AFJ1983]

there is a shower in over the bath and it points in that direction which made me think it was water getting through the tiles. there is no window in the bathroom the effected wall is tiled to the ceiling. If damp was the problem would it just be in this small area? and would my neighbour not be affected too?

 

[Graemevw]

Ohh yes, the seal can go easily.

How was it sealed?

Bath trim seal? (there crap)

Silicone bead?

Silicone is the best way but its got to be a good quality silicone, its got to be completely dry and dust free, and the bath has to be full of water when its applied.

Otherwise, empty bath, seal to walls, fill with water and get in. The bath drops a couple of MM and the seal rips.

When empty it will raise and probably still look sealed.

Bad quality silicone, or worse 'bathroom sealant' wont last and if there was any dampness or dust when it was done it will also leak.

 

[AFJ1983]

if the wall behind the tiles turns out to be an original plaster wall should it have been tanked like the plasterboard should have been?

 

[tpt]

My moneys on the shower. if its directed at a wall of tiles that are over standard plasterboard then pound to a penny its water ingress via the shower.

Can you tell if the tile adhesive has been directly applied to the plasterboard? if its been tanked you'll see a rubbery membrane between the board and the back of the tile adhesive (usually white\cream and applied in a grooved pattern)

If its damp to that level i'd expect to see the wall behind the plasterboard dripping wet, and the timbers wet too.

I'm not saying your builder carries the can for this as it depends what was specified\agreed to, and if the shower has been fitted since. only you will know that.

 

[AFJ1983]

so if the seal has went then does this mean its nobodys fault and i just have to pay to have the work done again?

 

[Graemevw]

Brick and plaster wall should be fine, but will still blow the tiles off if the bath seal goes and water gets in.

 

[AFJ1983]

from what i have seen there is no membrane its just tile adheasive onto what i think is plasterbard, its strange though one section looks like plasterboard and another plaster as its really thick, much thicker than plasterboard.

 

[Graemevw]

so if the seal has went then does this mean its nobodys fault and i just have to pay to have the work done again?

Depends on how it was done. Did you see him do it?

Bath should have been filled with water, then sealed, and he should have told you to leave the water in there at least overnight, if not 24 hours.

If they finished the job, sealed the bath, then left, and the bath was empty then i would say they havent done it properly.

They could have done it properly with low quality materials with similar results.

I dont know, i wasnt there.

 

[tpt]

if its not been tanked, then there never was a seal. if he fitted the shower\tiles etc and you didn't 'force' him on the spec of what to use\agree to terms conditions etc then you may have some comeback.

Its not a job i would be happy with, and it doesnt sound like damp so he may be fobbing you off, but he has seen it (i assume) and i havent - i dont know the background to the job or your agreements with the builder, but from what you have told me i wouldnt be fobbed off.