Timer wiring

[Sym]

I have bought a timer from B&Q. It is one that fits in a single gang. Int he cellar i have a wire from the consumer box which then splits to two witres that go to a light each either side of the front door. I want these on a timer as the light detector on both lamps has broke (dont ask) - Simple enough task i thought. .....

Anyway the timer has live in, live out, switched out, and neutral. I connected both neutrals to the neutral, the live from the cu to the live in, and the live to the lights in the live out - nope dont work. Should somehting be connected to the switch or is the timer bust .

??

Cheers

 

[Big_Spark]

Have you checked to see if you have power to the timer..you already stated the lights don't work, has the fuse blown, breaker tripped or the circuit become disconnected somewhere?

 

[Sym]

Sorry the lights do work - just they are on permanantly not just when dark.

Also I have linked the "link to switch" and "live in" connections and in this setup the lights are always on even when the timer is set to off. Without this link the lights are always off ??

 

[Big_Spark]

Sym, it sounds like the actual fittings are wired up wrong.

In the back of each fitting will be a terminal block, this will have three connections plus one for Earth.

One connection will be the Neutral and will be either blue or black in colour.

Then the other two may be white, brown or a mix. One of these terminals, probably marked L1 or Live In, will be the feed into the light from the mains. This then feeds through the PIR to operate the light.

The third terminal will be marked either L2 or Light, this is the link from the PIR to the Light, and you do not connect anything to this. If you have in error then this will cause the lights to be on all the time.

One other thing to look for is the photocell, so the light "knows" when it is dark. When new most of these tiny openings are covered with a sticker, normally the same colour as the fitting for some odd reason. This sticker needs to be removed for the light to operate correctly, if it is still in place the light will be on 24/7.

Also I have linked the "link to switch" and "live in" connections and in this setup the lights are always on even when the timer is set to off. Without this link the lights are always off ??

This is normal, if you put this link in, you are bypassing the timer and supplying power to the lights, take the link out, and the timer will function as designed and not supply power until a preset time.

 

[Sym]

Thanks for that - However the lights used to work on and off when dark and light. The friend i took them off then put low energy lamps in them which flickered for about two hours then went out. The lights since then are on all the time. Now I am presuming therefore that the PIR has broke.

Anyway I thought I would buy a timer as this would be easier to fix than sticking a new PIR outside etc. I can not see why it is not working except that it is broke ...

 

[Big_Spark]

Well the Compact Florries maywell have have killed the Photocells in the lights. The inrush current these draw can kill some, but also many are designed to have a trickle current going through the filament of the lamp at all time. This is not enough to illuminate the lamp, but the CF lamps don't allow this, and it can damage the control gear.

With regards the timer, if you have wired it up as per the manufacturers instructions, set it up to work properly and it does not work, then it is likely defective.

 

[securespark]

HAS IT GOT A MANUAL OVERRIDE THAT IS SET TO "ON ALL THE TIME"?

Sorry to shout!!

 

[kendor]

Thanks for that - However the lights used to work on and off when dark and light. The friend i took them off then put low energy lamps in them which flickered for about two hours then went out. The lights since then are on all the time. Now I am presuming therefore that the PIR has broke.

Sounds to me that the lamps were designed only for tungsten lamps (ie with filaments) not the discharge lamps that were fitted , inside the light fittings the lamps would be switched via a triac( an electronic switch to simplify things) and it sounds as if it is now damaged and shorted (probably due to spikes induced by the "energy savers") hence the lamps stay on even when daylight,now these triac devices need whats called a "holding current" when in operation ( the HC varies with devices) with resistive loads as will be seen with filament lamps the device will work properly switching off on each zero crossing of the the sine wave and the control circuitry will gate the triac on the next half of the wave, with the "energy saving lamps" being discharge lamps (flourescents to the uninitiated) they will look as an inductive load with very little resitive load (not enough to keep the holding current flowing,also the inductance will cause spikes on each switch off)and the lamp will drop out prematurely before the cycle reaches the zero cross point and then the lamp will be turned on again on the next half cycle and drop out prematurely again this is the flickering you saw(off more than it was on hence the eye perceives the flicker), this is why the instructions normally say only for filament lamps and not to use flourescent loads, also a minimum wattage will be specified alongside the obvious maximum wattage to be used , if you add a lamp below the minimum specified wattage (usually around the 60w mark but not always) say a 25w lamp then you will probably notice it stays on all the time as the triac must see enough current to operate properly, you will find this a lot in the lighting industry where a small load is connected to a dimmer and has to have a further load a "dummy load" added aswell to make the dimmer work properly.

 

[Sym]

Securespark - yes it has but i have tried it on all three settings, on, off, timed. If i wire it as said it does not come on atall, if a put a connector from live to switched then it is on all the time. I presume the timer is defective, just wondered if you guys had had experiance of these and if there was a trick to it. The timer details are here

Kendor - very interesting - its a while since i did my electrical and electronics engineering but i still understood what you said.