Tobias Elwood says we should rejoin Single Market

[Deleted member 174758]

What are you doing to help these "deprived" people that you are so concerned about J&K? Has your private development given them any work?

This "private " development is actually being undertaken by the local Housing Association, who also own the majority of the estate - so not "mine" - my understanding is that the receipts from this development will be used to build new rental homes. But I just work there.

And I actually do undertake some charity work from time to time with a group of people who are disabled, but you obviously think that I should be doing more. What do you do?

I've known many such estates and the people thereon. Those with drive move away to get jobs.

This particular estate has two buses an hour to take people into a town with a decayed industrial sector (so almost no local jobs). It costs £4.40 for a return bus fare, which may not seem a lot, but to someone on under £90 a week in benefits it is a lot. In fact it is a major disincentive so far as I see it

There are 5.3 million people on out-of-work benefits, yet we are told that businesses cannot recruit staff. We have a huge national debt and all sorts of other problems, yet we pay 5 million not to work. Why not put those 5 million to good use!

Maybe that's down to the wrong skills or distance. For example they need more doctors at the local hospital, but thyere aren't many local recruits. Manchester Airport needs more baggage handlers, but that's 30-odd miles away and 2-1/2 hours by public transport (which isn't very good late at night, early in the morning, on bank holidays, etc) - and you need a full CRB check (so maybe not good for someone off a sink estate). So maybe there needs to be someone to match vacancies with candidates, sensibly - I know, let's call it a Job Centre and get busy. Hold on, though, we already have those, but they don't work that way, partly because they privatised the jobs database - all they do is tell you to search on-line and apply for any and every job you find, regardless if it is suitable. It's all about the numbers, and to hell with what the employers feel about having their time wasted by no-hopers. Another fine Tory mess!

 

[Vinty]

Correct. The Russians will seize any opportunity to sow discord in the West. One of their genius moves was helping the idiot Trump into power and backing Brexit.

You are correct in your assertion that the Russians may try to take advantage of discord in the west, however that doesn't mean the Russians are the source of that discord.

 

[noseall]

You are correct in your assertion that the Russians may try to take advantage of discord in the west, however that doesn't mean the Russians are the source of that discord.

Quite. You need populist right wingers in power first, then stand back and watch the carnage.

 

[Notch7]

This "private " development is actually being undertaken by the local Housing Association, who also own the majority of the estate - so not "mine" - my understanding is that the receipts from this development will be used to build new rental homes. But I just work there.

And I actually do undertake some charity work from time to time with a group of people who are disabled, but you obviously think that I should be doing more. What do you do?


This particular estate has two buses an hour to take people into a town with a decayed industrial sector (so almost no local jobs). It costs £4.40 for a return bus fare, which may not seem a lot, but to someone on under £90 a week in benefits it is a lot. In fact it is a major disincentive so far as I see it


Maybe that's down to the wrong skills or distance. For example they need more doctors at the local hospital, but thyere aren't many local recruits. Manchester Airport needs more baggage handlers, but that's 30-odd miles away and 2-1/2 hours by public transport (which isn't very good late at night, early in the morning, on bank holidays, etc) - and you need a full CRB check (so maybe not good for someone off a sink estate). So maybe there needs to be someone to match vacancies with candidates, sensibly - I know, let's call it a Job Centre and get busy. Hold on, though, we already have those, but they don't work that way, partly because they privatised the jobs database - all they do is tell you to search on-line and apply for any and every job you find, regardless if it is suitable. It's all about the numbers, and to hell with what the employers feel about having their time wasted by no-hopers. Another fine Tory mess!

Andy spends his time posting his uninformed opinions.

people like that aren’t interested in being informed, they are too scared to leave their comfort zone

 

[Deleted member 18243]

This particular estate has two buses an hour to take people into a town with a decayed industrial sector (so almost no local jobs). It costs £4.40 for a return bus fare, which may not seem a lot, but to someone on under £90 a week in benefits it is a lot. In fact it is a major disincentive so far as I see

Why can't they walk or cycle to the town centre? My first decade's travelling to work was done by bicycle. Getting **** wet through, mending punctures, dodging potholes and bad car drivers etc. I considered this as normality and not a degradation or imposition. Much of my "own time" back then was spent mending and maintaining said bicycle, or when all else failed finding another (secondhand) bicycle. I've just had a quick look on Ebay and many bicycles have sold for 99p, i.e. they are being given away.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Why can't they walk or cycle to the town centre?

They can walk, it's 2-1/2 miles, however Rochdale is a decayed town centre with many closed shops, so there's little employment opportunity there. People who live in the town and are working almost all travel out. In any case you need money to buy a bike. The fact is that Rochdale was a cotton mill town with 75 to 80% of the population working in textiles at one time. Most of those jobs went in the 70s and 80s. The remaining work was in engineering and distribution with the two biggest firms in those sectors in the early 80s being Thomas Robinsons (woodworking machinery and flour milling machinery) and Woolworths, respectively. Robinsons was bought and asset stripped in the late 1980s and when they closed down at least half a dozen local engineering firms went, too. Woolworths (who had about 1000 employees in a massive distribution complex) went the way of the world, taking other jobs in transport and manufacturing with them. For every 10 jobs lost locally, maybe 1 or 2 new ones are created. that is the real issue

One of the things people living in the south fail to comprehend is that the recession in 2008 in a place like Thame (Oxfordshire) meant a few shops in the town centre being empty for a while - in a number of towns I know in Lancashire and Yorkshire it meant whole town centres almost dying and many more people chasing jobs than there were jobs. That latter situation is still the case in some places

 

[Notch7]

They can walk, it's 2-1/2 miles, however Rochdale is a decayed town centre with many closed shops, so there's little employment opportunity there. People who live in the town and are working almost all travel out. In any case you need money to buy a bike. The fact is that Rochdale was a cotton mill town with 75 to 80% of the population working in textiles at one time. Most of those jobs went in the 70s and 80s. The remaining work was in engineering and distribution with the two biggest firms in those sectors in the early 80s being Thomas Robinsons (woodworking machinery and flour milling machinery) and Woolworths, respectively. Robinsons was bought and asset stripped in the late 1980s and when they closed down at least half a dozen local engineering firms went, too. Woolworths (who had about 1000 employees in a massive distribution complex) went the way of the world, taking other jobs in transport and manufacturing with them. For every 10 jobs lost locally, maybe 1 or 2 new ones are created. that is the real issue

One of the things people living in the south fail to comprehend is that the recession in 2008 in a place like Thame (Oxfordshire) meant a few shops in the town centre being empty for a while - in a number of towns I know in Lancashire and Yorkshire it meant whole town centres almost dying and many more people chasing jobs than there were jobs. That latter situation is still the case in some places

I don’t think people in the South can appreciate the level of decay in the North.

I was running a joinery company in Sussex through the financial crisis of 2008 - I never even noticed, all tradesmen around here were fully busy throughout that period.

Its disgusting the way this govt are using their “levelling up” propaganda to try and buy the Northern Brexit voters. We already know the Tories will throw money at the key marginals come election time….and they will be full of big promises , like they always are. All that 40 new hospitals bolox

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I don’t think people in the South can appreciate the level of decay in the North.

I was running a joinery company in Sussex through the financial crisis of 2008 - I never even noticed, all tradesmen around here were fully busy throughout that period.

'The north' is a rather wide brush. Employment varies tremendously upon which part of the north you are in, I live in a prosperous part of the north, with high levels of employment.

 

[ajohn]

Employment isn't that easy to look at really. This helps as it also includes inactive

Labour market in the regions of the UK - Office for National Statistics

Regional, local authority and parliamentary constituency breakdowns of changes in UK employment, unemployment, economic inactivity and other related statistics.

www.ons.gov.uk

Still not good in some ways - why is a person inactive? Maybe it's explained somewhere but notice the difference between that and unemployment. it would be pointless including people who for some reason can't work.

The west midlands looks to be pretty good on this basis but lots of people in the surrounding area go into Birmingham to work. Some of the surrounding areas too.

 

[Notch7]

'The north' is a rather wide brush. Employment varies tremendously upon which part of the north you are in, I live in a prosperous part of the north, with high levels of employment.

Indeed, I did mean to state that.

its Mostly the old heavy industrial regions, like Rochdale, Hull, Sunderland etc

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Indeed, I did mean to state that.

its Mostly the old heavy industrial regions, like Rochdale, Hull, Sunderland etc

It's a bit wider spread than that. The former shipbuilding and engineering areas in the north east have been badly affected since the 1970s,
most of the textiles areas in Lancashire and Yorkshire were badly hit by the downturn in demand in the 1970s followed by the catastrophic 1980s, so the decline is long established and fairly major. Even shiny Sheffield is a pale reflection of what it was in the 1980s. It's all very well saying the unemployment rates in these areas is below 6%, but the telling figure is the employment rate - for example in Bradford the employment is currently about 66% with 6.3% unemployment. So what is that missing 27.7% doing?

BTW, as an aside in the Thatcher years in this valley we saw unemployment top 15% - in the next door valley (in Yorkshire) it peaked at nearly 19%. t takes decades to recover from that, it requires investment in infrastructure and training which this region has never had. Leveling up? Pah! Don't make me laugh - they've even cancelled the decades-overdue electrification of the Leeds to Manchester railway, whilst Crossrail 2, which will cost a helluva lot more, goes ahead

 

[Notch7]

It's a bit wider spread than that. The former shipbuilding and engineering areas in the north east have been badly affected since the 1970s,
most of the textiles areas in Lancashire and Yorkshire were badly hit by the downturn in demand in the 1970s followed by the catastrophic 1980s, so the decline is long established and fairly major. Even shiny Sheffield is a pale reflection of what it was in the 1980s. It's all very well saying the unemployment rates in these areas is below 6%, but the telling figure is the employment rate - for example in Bradford the employment is currently about 66% with 6.3% unemployment. So what is that missing 27.7% doing?

BTW, as an aside in the Thatcher years in this valley we saw unemployment top 15% - in the next door valley (in Yorkshire) it peaked at nearly 19%. t takes decades to recover from that, it requires investment in infrastructure and training which this region has never had. Leveling up? Pah! Don't make me laugh - they've even cancelled the decades-overdue electrification of the Leeds to Manchester railway, whilst Crossrail 2, which will cost a helluva lot more, goes ahead

The people of these regions felt left behind, it’s no surprise they voted for Brexit, as that gave them a “choice”.

what is sad is the Brexit affects the industrial regions far more than the South East.

Northerners tend to be the most vociferous Brexit supporters.


“levelling up” is simply Tory propaganda, most of the money has been going to the wealthy Tory constituencies

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Tell me about it - I live in one of these regions

 

[Notch7]

Tell me about it - I live in one of these regions

Most people from Lancashire I’ve come across on SM are Brexit supporters and they aren’t interested in listening to anything.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Most people from Lancashire I’ve come across on SM are Brexit supporters and they aren’t interested in listening to anything.

A lot of the people I know (in person) are the exact opposite. Possibly due to education, upbringing or maybe having a wider experience of the world? The ones I worked with at the time of the Brexit vote in 2016 (in Yorkshire) almost all seemed to think that Brexit = No Immigration, and that was about the end of it. There was even one lass who told my missus that she'd voted "Leave" to teach David Cameron's government a lesson!

Basically, there are lots of people out there without any idea how our economy works, and how their lives might be affected by Brexit. A few I'm still in touch with from 2016 seem to be regretting their decisions now, probably as it has begun to affect them financially but at least they are astute enough now to realise that it is maybe 50 to 70% down to Brexit.