toilet struggles flushing

[dextur]

Hi I have a low level toilet which flushes by pushing a handle down. To make it flush you have to hold the handle down for a few seconds. Any one know what the problem could be here?

 

[Blagard]

If it is an old syphon type in the cistern the diaphragm inside the syphon might be worn or torn so holding the handle down helps to keep the water going over the pipe inside and get the syphon effect working. Basically water is slipping past the diaphragm as it is lifted so the initial push on the handle does not shift as much water as it used to when new.

A similar problem is when you have to push the handle several times quick in succession to get a flush

You can get replacement diaphragms, but to be honest it is often just simpler to replace the whole syphon as they are fairly cheap. If you get a replacement diaphragm the hassle is getting one the right shape as they vary. Cutting a blank is possible but again hassle!

Google "syphon diaphragm toilet cistern" then click "images" to see the many sorts! or try my link below if it works!

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=s...vIDoDg&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=821

Edit: Typical whole syphon replacements as link, just measure the height of yours as it is inside the cistern. I believe the ones in the link also have the compression seal on the bottom for connection to a low level WC flushpipe
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p77721

Unlikely but you should also check the handle to lever connection inside the cistern. If the lever is slipping on the shaft it may not be going full travel which has a similar effect on flushing. Levers can be bought cheaply if needing replacement

 

[Bosswhite]

Dont bother getting a new syphon replace the old one with a Flapper valve, simple to fit and trouble free.

 

[Blagard]

Dont bother getting a new syphon replace the old one with a Flapper valve, simple to fit and trouble free.

Will suit a close coupled WC but is the threaded tail long enough to accept the nut and seal off the old syphon for connection to the low level flushpipe?

Syphon and Flapper both involve the same work except you have to pay more for the flapper including changing the lever to suit. Also flappers when they fail, they fail running .i.e. let water run through continuously.

Personally I don't like them but they are an approved alternative so the OP can decide!

 

[dextur]

Thanks is a newly installed toilet so should the diaphragm be ok could it be a faulty one?

 

[GavThePlumber]

Dont bother getting a new syphon replace the old one with a Flapper valve, simple to fit and trouble free.

This is the worst advice i have heard this week, do not fit a flap valve.

 

[Blagard]

Thanks is a newly installed toilet so should the diaphragm be ok could it be a faulty one?

Does it do a sort of short flush if you release the handle straight away?

The thing is todays WC's are dual flush. So a lever version gives a short flush with one push and a full flush if held down. If that is what you have it is normal.

My bad for assuming you had an old low level WC that had started to need the handle held down when previously a single push gave a full flush

 

[Charnwood]

The thing is todays WC's are dual flush. So a lever version gives a short flush with one push and a full flush if held down.

If it's a Dudley Turbo 88 they work (illogically) the other way round:

Dudley Duoflush delivers water-saving reduced flush when lever is held down and full flush when lever is depressed and released.

 

[Bosswhite]

Dont bother getting a new syphon replace the old one with a Flapper valve, simple to fit and trouble free.

This is the worst advice i have heard this week, do not fit a flap valve.

For what reason do you say that, what problems have you come across with Flapper valves ? These are widely used across the World especially in Europe and the USA
Fitted correctly there are no problems, one just has to get used to using them.
I have replaced syphons with flapper valves for customers and as to date have never received any complaints just good reviews.

 

[GavThePlumber]

For what reason do you say that, what problems have you come across with Flapper valves ? These are widely used across the World especially in Europe and the USA
Fitted correctly there are no problems, one just has to get used to using them.
I have replaced syphons with flapper valves for customers and as to date have never received any complaints just good reviews.

Just because other countries might use them gives no validity or merit to your argument, they stone people to death in the middle east, should we start doing that here?

You are also trying to suggest that they are popular in these countries, this is false, they are used as sparsely as they are in the UK.

There are no benefits to a homeowner having one of these fitted, because there are absolutely no upsides to having one and nobody would ever ask for one, so i don't understand why you have ever bothered fitting them for your unfortunate customers, let us hope they are not on a meter.

They should be banned, again.

 

[Bosswhite]

For what reason do you say that, what problems have you come across with Flapper valves ? These are widely used across the World especially in Europe and the USA
Fitted correctly there are no problems, one just has to get used to using them.
I have replaced syphons with flapper valves for customers and as to date have never received any complaints just good reviews.

Just because other countries might use them gives no validity or merit to your argument, they stone people to death in the middle east, should we start doing that here?

You are also trying to suggest that they are popular in these countries, this is false, they are used as sparsely as they are in the UK.

There are no benefits to a homeowner having one of these fitted, because there are absolutely no upsides to having one and nobody would ever ask for one, so i don't understand why you have ever bothered fitting them for your unfortunate customers, let us hope they are not on a meter.

They should be banned, again.

This is a metered area (in fact was the first in the Country to do so)
I have not had any problems with any that I have fitted bypassing the flapper valve, one allows for the flap valve to sit correctly by the chain or cord,
I accept that debris (From the water pipe supply) can cause problems in the cistern by the flap valve not closing properly but this can be cleaned away easily by hand, whereas debris can chew up a diaphragm on a syphon valve within a few days of fitting it , which would require total replacement of the syphon, One just takes ones choice.

seems to me the ones you have come across and complain about have been badly fitted.

 

[GavThePlumber]

whereas debris can chew up a diaphragm on a syphon valve within a few days of fitting it

Why do you fit them though, what possible reason do you have to install one?

 

[Charnwood]

Play nicely, children.

I sold thousands of Fluidmaster and Fluidmaster PRO flappers, so someone must have asked for them. Plus there are other distributors selling them.
Statements with no facts to back them up do no favours in an argum.. err discussion.

I fitted a flapper - by choice - to replace the antiquated 'technology' that is the syphon.

 

[Burnerman]

If its the traditional syphon, maybe the water level isn't quite high enough?
(If the diaphragm is known to be OK)
John

 

[Blagard]

If its the traditional syphon, maybe the water level isn't quite high enough?
(If the diaphragm is known to be OK)
John

Good point, but now we know the OP has a new WC not an old one it may not even be a syphon!

I would think that if you have an old WC replaced with a modern dual flush and no-one tells you about the change you would come to the conclusion the OP has, that something is wrong.

Charnwoods comment about the Dudley was news to me - something new to learn all the time!