too much load on a spur?

[nrgizerbunny]

I am in the process of doing some kitchen renovations and need to put a socket in for a drier and washing machine.

I know in an ideal scenario the best bet would be to extend the ring main which is definitely easier said than done but I was unsure if it was too much load for a spur?

Hence I went and got 3 quotes for the work to be done. 1 chappie said I needed a ring main extension. one chap said it would be fine just on a fused spur. I did query him as to whether the fuse would blow . And the final chap said just a normal spur with 30A cable would be okay.

I did the old P=VI trick but then realised the peak draw when the things start off is more than there actualy rating on the back.

If any friendly spark could clarify what i should do then I would really appreciate it

 

[andy]

best extend the ring

 

[user56565]

i would imagine both machines have a 13A fuse each?? there is a possibility (however unlikely) that you could end up using both at the same time. therefore ideally you shouldn't get one double socket installed for use of both (the socket will only 'cope' with 13A total). get two separate single sockets installed. this has been dealt with another topic im sure..

best thing is an extension to the ring (in 2.5mm as you should already have) to include both sockets.


if you still want to get one double socket installed, either extend the ring, OR put in a 4mm spur (this is suitable rated + protected in the CU)

 

[Jaymack]

therefore ideally you shouldn't get one double socket installed for use of both (the socket will only 'cope' with 13A total).

For the record, a twin socket outlet on a 32A ring final circuit is rated for more than 13A, for actual rating consult the manufacturer but is probably about 19A.
_____________________
moderator

edited to correct quote

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I know in an ideal scenario the best bet would be to extend the ring main which is definitely easier said than done but I was unsure if it was too much load for a spur?

You could put 2 spurs in.

But as you say - the best thing is to extend the ring, so bite the bullet...

BTW - you are aware of Part P?

 

[nrgizerbunny]

thanks for all the replies. its very much appreciated.

at the moment the drier and the washing machine are both attached to the same single double socket, so by the sounds of it the guy that wired the house didn't do a particularly good job.

I am going to bite the bullet and extend the ring main. I have found a double socket that I am going to use as the basis of my extension. It is on the ring main as its got 2 wires going into it. I was going to replace the double with a box that takes two singles ( http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Images/Products/size_3/AP636.JPG ) and then wire my 2 new sockets in between them.

as far as part P goes, I was either going to get a local sparky who knows what he's doing or was going to phone up building guy up to tell him before hand. I believe this is okay? the legislation is so confusing I was unsure whether you actually have to declare an extension to the ring or not, so best to just phone up and check I suppose.

 

[user56565]

For the record, a twin socket outlet on a 32A ring final circuit is rated for more than 13A, for actual rating consult the manufacturer but is probably about 19A.

the rating of the socket is normally on the back of it. i have only ever seen 13A total, but maybe there are some out there rated at 19A.

 

[Adam_151]

For the record, a twin socket outlet on a 32A ring final circuit is rated for more than 13A, for actual rating consult the manufacturer but is probably about 19A.

the rating of the socket is normally on the back of it. i have only ever seen 13A total, but maybe there are some out there rated at 19A.

No, they are rated at 13A total. Just some of the better quality ones (like MK) can stand 19A for a couple of hours ot so without causing damage, but this doesn't mean that they are rated at 19A. I think you mis-understood the report from MK that FWL posted

 

[user56565]

@adam
haven't read any report. but thanks for confirming that they are only rated 13A. i didn't know if jaymack had found a new product or something..

 

[Big_Spark]

I would add to this that you should all be on the look out for any socket outlet that claims to be rated at more than 13A (Unless it is a special type of course). Those manufactured to BS1361 are only rated at 13A, any claiming higher should be immediately reported to Trading Standards as they are Illegal.

There have been reports of cheap imported sockets that claim the doubles have a 26A rating, this is bull and they do not meet any BS or EN certification. Places like B&Q would not seel such items (I hope), however I am aware that there are a growing number of people selling such products at boot sales, Tool and DIY Fairs and on Ebay.

Be aware of the dangers these dodgy products present, your wiring may not kill you, but your purchase could!!

 

[plugwash]

I would add to this that you should all be on the look out for any socket outlet that claims to be rated at more than 13A (Unless it is a special type of course). Those manufactured to BS1361 are only rated at 13A, any claiming higher should be immediately reported to Trading Standards as they are Illegal.

There have been reports of cheap imported sockets that claim the doubles have a 26A rating, this is bull and they do not meet any BS or EN certification. Places like B&Q would not seel such items (I hope), however I am aware that there are a growing number of people selling such products at boot sales, Tool and DIY Fairs and on Ebay.

Be aware of the dangers these dodgy products present, your wiring may not kill you, but your purchase could!!

whats illigal about making a product to exceed a standard and labeling it as such?

ofc if the product can't actually take 26Aand they claim it can then it would be fraud

 

[user56565]

i dont understand why any double sockets have not yet been designed + approved for use at 26A. to the end user, a plug is a plug, and they would not think twice about connecting 2 appliances on the same double socket. circuits are protected in the CU, and appliances by the fuse in the plug. however all these 13A double sockets have no such protection. i suppose its not a problem thats occurred in the real world..

thanks for the heads up FWL

 

[real1314]

must be an overload with a kettle running for a brew with 4 slices in a dualit at the same time from a double socket then surely?

or perhaps the tolerances within regs mean that this is "never a problem"??

 

[plugwash]

the ratings we use for wiring are based on continous load for short durations you can get away with a lot more. (i've heared of a 9KW shower running off a 13A plug with no real trouble)

also most kettles (especailly small portable ones) are way under 3KW anyway not sure about toasters

 

[Jaymack]

I would add to this that you should all be on the look out for any socket outlet that claims to be rated at more than 13A (Unless it is a special type of course). Those manufactured to BS1361 are only rated at 13A, any claiming higher should be immediately reported to Trading Standards as they are Illegal.

To re-iterate, the total thermal rating for a twin socket is in excess of 13A!, the actual is as specified by the manufacturer.