Track Saw advice...

[^woody^]

In any case, what sort of joiner are you?

I don't identify as a joiner. Please don't mis- trade me.

I don't have a problem with Festool users. They are probably quite nice people under that soft skin. However my observations are that many Festool users only exhaalt their tools just to say "I have a Festool, so I am cooler than you". A bit like BMW drivers and iPhone users. Same vibe.

Anyhow, I can say exactly the same thing about any of my tools earning their money. And probably as a ratio of tool cost/ earnings that ratio would be higher, as I don't buy brands I buy tools.

 

[opps]

I don't identify as a joiner. Please don't mis- trade me.

I don't have a problem with Festool users. They are probably quite nice people under that soft skin. However my observations are that many Festool users only exhaalt their tools just to say "I have a Festool, so I am cooler than you". A bit like BMW drivers and iPhone users. Same vibe.

Anyhow, I can say exactly the same thing about any of my tools earning their money. And probably as a ratio of tool cost/ earnings that ratio would be higher, as I don't buy brands I buy tools.

I have a Festool jigsaw, it is nowhere near as cool as @JobAndKnock 's Mafell jigsaw.

Nearly all of my sanders are Festool, primarily because for a long time they made the best sanders. Mirka have since upped their game.

I am a festool fanboi, but I am willing to criticise them and from time to time, I buy other brands. I really do not see anything wrong with brand loyalty though. If you buy tools that consistently outperform other tools that you have used, you will work on the assumption that the next tool you buy from them will be equally impressive.

Festool seem to focus on things that most other manufacturers ignore. Take their dust extractors as an example. When I first started decorating I had a George dust extractor with power take off (which I attached my Atlas Copco sander to). If I was working on a messy site, the static electricity generated by the hose would attract all of the wood chippings left on the floor by the chippies. The hose was rigid and annoyingly short an often fell of the sander.

My next dust extractor was the Festo CT22, it had a 3.5m antistatic hose. It was my second Festo purchase, the first being the DX93 delta sander. The hose never fell off and it didn't attract dust from the floor.

The CT22 is now about 22 years old, the DX 93 is probably about 25 years old. Both sill work and are used regularly (all day) long. And that is the other thing about professional tools not mentioned thus far. DIY tools are only designed to run for brief periods. They then need to cool down, a proper professional tool can be used all day long.

I (read: we) have a stoopdily expensive B&O TV, she purchased it 2002. She haggled the local B&O store down to £10,000. That is daft money but I calculated that it has been on for in excess of 130,000 hours. That works out to 8p per day, and it still works (never failed). OK it is only 720 HD but we both wear glasses.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I don't have a problem with Festool users. They are probably quite nice people under that soft skin.

Oh dear. And you were doing so well until you contradicted yourself there.

AFAIK there are two sorts of Festool users (maybe three if you include the well healed amateurs). The first type are the fanboys, who turn up on site with everything Festool, including the T-shirt and pencils, although all the ones I've worked with to date have also been good at their job possibly because you need to be earning it to spend that sort of money on tools. The second type of Festool user maybe has a few Festool items (e.g. plunge saw, Rotex sander, Domino, back handle plunge router, sanders, etc) but isn't 100% Festool. That sort of user (at least in trade) is likely to have bought one or more specific Festool tools because they get some advantage - be it dust extraction, ergonomics, performance, light weight, low noise, or just unique functionality. And there are some pretty unique tools that Festool make which I have bought into, e.g. the Rotex sander and my two Dominos, and at the time I bought my TS55 there were only a few choices for thevtradesman and no e at all for the DIYer. You probably wouldn't know what to so with my specialist tools, that's fine - but I do, and all the Festool tools I own save me time and effort whilst being more accurate and having superior dust extraction to most competitors. Despite this, I don't recall ever seriously recommending a Festool tool to DIYer
because I don't think it would be justifiable to the vast majority of people.

Anyhow, I can say exactly the same thing about any of my tools earning their money.

But as you aren't, by your own admission, a joiner, I can only presume that you do not or cannot see the advantage of certain joinery tools in delivering a well finished product. I find that a surprisingly Luddite point of view but the construction industry as a whole in the UK is hardly noted for being efficiency or quality minded

I don't buy brands I buy tools.

Neither do I. But I'll wager that given a choice between a Marshalltown trowel or float, or a similar item from Ragni or a cheap Silverline one you'd probably not choose the Silverline one

NONE OF THIS HELPS THE OP, HOWEVER

 

[opps]

Oh dear. And you were doing so well until you contradicted yourself there.

AFAIK there are two sorts of Festool users (maybe three if you include the well healed amateurs). The first type are the fanboys, who turn up on site with everything Festool, including the T-shirt and pencils, although all the ones I've worked with to date have also been good at their job possibly because you need to be earning it to spend that sort of money on tools. The second type of Festool user maybe has a few Festool items (e.g. plunge saw, Rotex sander, Domino, back handle plunge router, sanders, etc) but isn't 100% Festool. That sort of user (at least in trade) is likely to have bought one or more specific Festool tools because they get some advantage - be it dust extraction, ergonomics, performance, light weight, low noise, or just unique functionality. And there are some pretty unique tools that Festool make which I have bought into, e.g. the Rotex sander and my two Dominos, and at the time I bought my TS55 there were only a few choices for thevtradesman and no e at all for the DIYer. You probably wouldn't know what to so with my specialist tools, that's fine - but I do, and all the Festool tools I own save me time and effort whilst being more accurate and having superior dust extraction to most competitors. Despite this, I don't recall ever seriously recommending a Festool tool to DIYer
because I don't think it would be justifiable to the vast majority of people.


But as you aren't, by your own admission, a joiner, I can only presume that you do not or cannot see the advantage of certain joinery tools in delivering a well finished product. I find that a surprisingly Luddite point of view but the construction industry as a whole in the UK is hardly noted for being efficiency or quality minded


Neither do I. But I'll wager that given a choice between a Marshalltown trowel or float, or a similar item from Ragni or a cheap Silverline one you'd probably not choose the Silverline one

NONE OF THIS HELPS THE OP, HOWEVER

Dominos- I do not own one, I cannot justify purchasing one but you have provided an example of a tool that is exclusive to Festool.

I have a elu/dewalt biscuit joiner, but only an idiot would claim that a biscuit joiner is on par with the Domino. The Domino as a site tool strikes me as being epochal. Someone at festool went out out of their way to address a problem that wasn't deemed to be a problem by any other manufacturers.

 

[opps]

my two Dominos,

OMG, TWO?

I can never recall the difference between envy and jealousy.

Nevertheless, yeah , covert your Dominos, so I guess that I am guilty of the worse of the two- sorry..

Apologies to the OP, I recently had to use a Saxton branded oscillating saw, I purchased it as a birthday present for my stepfather. It was reduced from £100 to £50, I paid the £50.

I tried using it recently to grind out cracks in render. It was extremely noisy, and a bit pants. I now have my (15?) year old FEIN on site.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Yes, two. The smaller one has been used to build and resize kitchen units, furniture, shop units, make up oversize timber window reveal linings, door linings, etc. So a handy get you out of a hole tool where you need a rigid joint in furniture scale items. The bigger one has been used to rebuild damaged frame and panel doors in listed buildings, repair sash windows and even rebuild the top of a bespoke oak staircase which had been wrongly made/installed (not by me; a single job which actually paid half the cost of the tool). So, not essential, not necessary most of the time, but very handy.

None of these jobs could be done well enough with screws or biscuits in my professional opinion

 

[^woody^]

But as you aren't, by your own admission, a joiner

I am when I do joinery.

And when I am, I'm using the "best" or most appropriate tools to get the job done properly and as quick as it needs to be. So I'm not turning up with the cool tools just to cut and fix a few bits of timber. And I wear smoked or clear safety glasses, not rose lenses.

But the whole point of this and other similar "I want/I need/what's best?" type posts is firstly, does the OP actually need the type of tool. Is it the best option?
Secondly, the context of the OPs skill and usage patterns. The benefits of costs, brands etc.

So, is a track saw needed? It's niche and limited use for a DIYer is regularly touted above the more practical consideration of a plain old circular saw.

 

[A.Steve]

So, is a track saw needed? It's niche and limited use for a DIYer is regularly touted above the more practical consideration of a plain old circular saw.

That, sort-of, is my question. I've had a circular saw for ages - so know what I'd be getting there... around £50 and it's already justified spend. I can justify spending more... perhaps 2-3 times more... but only if that extra spending gets me a superior product. I am completely convinced that the £400+ models are superior to the £50 one... but I can't justify that sort of expense - even if it represents value... in some sense. I'm pretty confident that any track saw will result in me making neater straighter cuts. I was less clear that the cheap track saws would perform as well as the much cheaper circular saws. I would be kicking myself if I pushed the boat out on a £100-£150 track saw - then found its quality so low that I had to go out and buy a circular saw as well in order to get my jobs done.

I'm mostly convinced that one of the cheap track saws will be right for me. I've not yet chosen which one... that still looks like a minefield.

 

[opps]

That, sort-of, is my question. I've had a circular saw for ages - so know what I'd be getting there... around £50 and it's already justified spend. I can justify spending more... perhaps 2-3 times more... but only if that extra spending gets me a superior product. I am completely convinced that the £400+ models are superior to the £50 one... but I can't justify that sort of expense - even if it represents value... in some sense. I'm pretty confident that any track saw will result in me making neater straighter cuts. I was less clear that the cheap track saws would perform as well as the much cheaper circular saws. I would be kicking myself if I pushed the boat out on a £100-£150 track saw - then found its quality so low that I had to go out and buy a circular saw as well in order to get my jobs done.

I'm mostly convinced that one of the cheap track saws will be right for me. I've not yet chosen which one... that still looks like a minefield.

I have only ever owned a festool track saw.

I recently did some work for a mate that had previously purchased a MacAlister track saw.

I cut through his new 40mm Iroko worktops. The finished edge required very, very minimal "dressing" (read: sanding).

I saw some of the cuts that he made with his saw. They were less impressive, that said, I think they would have been vastly superior if he had purchased a better quality blade.

 

[A.Steve]

I saw some of the cuts that he made with his saw. They were less impressive, that said, I think they would have been vastly superior if he had purchased a better quality blade.

The MacAlister is in the price bracket I'm considering. A good blade - versus a blunt or low-quality one sounds like it would be the same for both a circular saw as a track saw. I'd not be surprised if the cuts from a MacAlister are not as great as those from a Festool... but... I'm more interested in whether the MacALister track saw did a better job than a plain circular saw and a straight edge would have provided.

 

[opps]

The MacAlister is in the price bracket I'm considering. A good blade - versus a blunt or low-quality one sounds like it would be the same for both a circular saw as a track saw. I'd not be surprised if the cuts from a MacAlister are not as great as those from a Festool... but... I'm more interested in whether the MacALister track saw did a better job than a plain circular saw and a straight edge would have provided.

Years ago. I used to use straight edges, but they do potentially bend, and the saw may deviate.

I would expect the Mac guide rail plus decent blade to provide a higher quality of finish when working with, for example, sheets of MDF. I do not have have first hand experience though

 

[^woody^]

I cut through his new 40mm Iroko worktops. The finished edge required very, very minimal "dressing" (read: sanding).

The cut edge has nothing to do with the saw, and everything to do with the saw blade!

 

[^woody^]

Years ago. I used to use straight edges, but they do potentially bend, and the saw may deviate.

If my straight edge bent, I'd be on the way to Germany to whack Mr Stabila on the head with it.

 

[^woody^]

I was less clear that the cheap track saws would perform as well as the much cheaper circular saws

A track saw is merely a circular saw on a track. Performance is the same.

 

[Diver Fred]

I've had a Skill saw (Yes, Really a skill* saw) for over twenty years. Used straight edges, guide clamps and even the fence. But then bought a Track Saw about 5 years ago at the same time as I replaced the blade on the Skill saw. I've used that saw less than a handful of times since having the track saw to use. Not sure if I was lucky or not - the Track saw is a Scheppach bought from B&Q on a discount cause the track is not common with the majority of other manufacturers. I've done lots of cutting with it - so much so I've had the blade sharpened.

I hope A.Seve has looked at Peter Millards Utoob channel on made a decision on a saw (probably from Lidl's as they have them in presently).

*'Skill' made the original hand held circular saw and for a long time were the only manufacturers hence the tools became known as a 'skill' saw. Skill were originally a USA company, eventually bought by Bosch but in recent years sold on to an Asian conglomerate.