Trainco Redfyre 28/32 Burner problems

[Keith F Miller]

Hi = new here and come in desperation for help please.... Old Trianco 28/32 oil boiler playing up and now not igniting. I've spent a samll fortune replacing the time controller and the ignition controller, but still no spark in start up sequence. Relay closes, but burner faults out to reset mode. Heating engineer eventually arrived, stripped down the burner (looks like an Electro Oil International with 0.85x80 nozzle, but no further ident on unit). Engineer identified the lack of ignition was due to fault in the transformer, a May and Christie type ZA 23 100E. He says they are unobtainable now (??), and was clearly not interested in taking repairs further, and rushed off as soon as I'd signed his chit!, but checking on line shows they are still obtainable at highly variable prices. Before I waste another couple of hundred quid on a 30 year old boiler, buying a new transformer, fitiing it and finding I still have no ignition, I wonder if there is any way of verifying that this transformer is stuffed? From what I know of transformers they are usually not repairable. Or perhaps I might substitute another type of lower cost ignition transformer? The M+C transformer is rated at 240 v primary and 2x 5kv eff at 22ma secondary output. Any helpful comments PLEASE.... Driven me to the edge of despair and bloody cold after 10 days with no heat in house

 

[Terrywookfit]

Check the HT leads are not arcing.
Wire the TXFR to a fly lead to test or fit a link in control box base. Leave box off to test.

Photo of burner would be handy.

 

[oilboffin]

Firstly you can get bits for these burners and secondly I wouldn't pay the bill if that's the kind of fitter you got.If you don't want to mess about with that burner you could always consider fitting a new burner as IMHO triancos arent bad boilers and tend to last.Bob

 

[muggles]

You can get a complete new burner for under £300

 

[Keith F Miller]

Thanks guys - pic of burner attached; upside down of course, but showing the faulty(??) transformer. I'll have a look deeper in to see if I can run a test on the txfr and check the HT leads... Having already spent so much on the new Potterton timer and the new Honeywell Ign Controller, which might not have been necessary, I'm kinda reluctant to abandon the burner if it was a simplematter of replacing the transformer (although the timer will work with any replacement). One of my concerns is that the pics I see on various websites selling these transformers indicate 2 distinctly different transformer types with the same model number (!) Don't want to drop another £100 and get the wrong one.... and one German web site wants about 400 Euros to supply it!

 

[Keith F Miller]

OK - managed to track down a reasonably priced supplier of the Ign Transformer - Greek (!) company called Kestakon in Covent Garden. Any knowledge of them? My big dilema is whether to spend another £100 on yet another part for this old clunker of a burner, or whether to replace the whole unit. I don't know whether its worse to scrap equipment and replace it at full cost when a cheap and simple repair could have sorted things, or whether to carry on throwing money at a never ending series of expensive componet replacements and still end up with non working unit. I'm at least £150 down on this so far and facing another £100 for a replacement transformer that may not be faulty and may not cure the ignition fault....honest opinions please, bearing in mind I'm a skint pensioner with a cheapskate attitude.... ? After the transformer replaced to possibly no useful purpose, what next? HT leads? Electrodes? Another £100 or more?

 

[Terrywookfit]

Test the fookin txfr as I told you!
Why did you change the other parts?

 

[Keith F Miller]

OK Terry - I can drive a multimeter, but I'm not sure what to look for in testing the TXFR - is it just a continuity check on the primary and secondary windings or do I have to energise it on a mains supply and check output levels? I changed the other parts because the initial problem presented as failure to fire up on over-riding the time clock settings and I assumed/concluded the cause was sticking slider controlles in the Potterton time controller. Then because the relay activation in the Satronic burner controller was showing a spark at the contacts intermittently and it's a sealed unit so not possible to clean and service the relay contacts, I replaced that whole unit....and then I brought in the heating engineer who identified the TXFR fault and ran away as soon as he told me they were no longer obtainable....

 

[Keith F Miller]

I think I'll be out of my technical comfort zone even separating the TXFR from the burner...Also looks like 2 secondary outputs and one primary. The outputs lead through the burner casing and no easy way of detaching them without pulling the whole unit to pieces. And if I do that it'll never go back together again.... So another DIY endeavour smacks its face into the dirt here....

 

[oilhead]

Isolate the burner electrically.Remove the control box and put a wire link between the live terminal and the transformer feed. reconnect the electric supply and the electrodes will spark, or they will not. If they don't, then the transformer is faulty.
You can get a Danfoss EBI complete wit adapter kit to replace your conventionally wound transformer. This is significantly less than your alternatives.

 

[Keith F Miller]

Thanks Oilhead - seems easy enough. I presume the electrodes will just spark once, on initial re-connect of mais supply to TXFR? Or will there be a pesistent 'arc' whilst the power is connected? If no spark, could it not point to faulty HT leads or even dud electrodes?? I'll give it a go anyway, but still uneasy about separating the transformer from the burner unit if I do have to replace it...

 

[Terrywookfit]

You will get a continuous arc. Check the HT leads are not shorting to earth if no spark at electrodes.
Don't forget it is 10kv (It bites) !!

 

[oilhead]

It is easy enough to disconnect from the burner. There are screws holding the feet; they need to be slackened off, and you should find the HT leads will pull out of the connectors. They are just HT lead screwed onto self-tappers in the transformer.

 

[Keith F Miller]

Thanks Oilhead.... easy enough to release the TXFR from the burner, but the 2 output lines are glanded through the casing and the transformer seems to gave some kind of plastic moulded casing enclosing the internals which isn't removable... see pic. Am I just being thick on this. I really didn't want to have to withdraw the burner head from the casing as that involved the oil lines and a whple new level of potentially fatal things to spring apart as I separate the burner from the casing...

 

[oilhead]

Once loose, you should find the HT leads will move easily through the glands. If the cables are bonded into the transformer, then you can snip them as close to the connection as you can leaving sufficient to make any connection to a new unit.