Trianco Eurostar Nightmare - Help!

[ManxMax]

Finally got the beast to run and was working fine for a week. Last Saturday morning had a lockout. Reset and... no joy. The burner starts and tries to make a flame. Pulled out the burner, cleaned everything, including photocell, reset electrodes, checked fuel flow (fine) back together and it did the same again. Stripped a further four times as it was getting sooted up after every few attempts at starting (no lock-outs though).

Decided to get some new stuff...
Replaced: electrodes; photocell, capacitor, nozzle. Cleaned everything so you could eat your dinner off it!

Oil pressure set to 130 as per manual and the air damper is at about the 4 mark.

Just a note: there is a film of kerosene visible in the blast tube when I stripped it down, so I am presuming that it is something to do with not keeping the spark going, maybe? With the cover off I can see it trying to start a flame over and over.

Hope someone can help, I'm at my wits end. No hot water or heating and moaning wife.

Would pay for heating engineer, but more chance of finding an astronaut here on Craggy Island!

Sorry for the long one but I'm really stuck now. Hope someone can help.

Cheer
Max

 

[Burnerman]

Just a couple of things, Max
Did you get a flue analysis done when the boiler seemed to be running fine? Its the CO2 reading thats important - the air door setting has to be adjusted to set this (I'm not too happy about the 'sooting up' syndrome)
Next, are the boiler baffles clean? Some Trianco's need baffle modification (I believe, though I've never done it) to allow the flue to work correctly.
If I have an unhappy burner, I run it on the bench - which rules out or proves the baffle issue.
John

 

[MANDATE]

I'm just trying to apply a bit of logic.
(a)Is there proof that oil is being discharged from the nozzle.
(b)Also is there proof of a spark at the electrodes.

If the above are ok, it could be the spark is not in the correct position relative to the 'cone' of oil discharged.

Noticed a few items replaced, but not the solenoid and I feel it should be checked out.

I had a situation once, where I removed the control box and the photo cell out of the equation. and wired the 'motor/pump', 'transformer/ electrodes' and the 'solenoid' all separate from a switched extension lead.
This way I could test each in turn

 

[ManxMax]

Thanks for your input John.

Baffles were all clean and correct, but I will re do them again as it ran for a week after before this problem occurred so is probably mucky again now.
Didn't get a flue analysis done when it ran as I can't find anyone to do it! This Island's a lovely place to live, but getting stuff done like you do in the UK is not going to happen quickly here - if at all. I will get one done somehow, if it ever runs again! Tried messing with the air door to see if it helps - it didn't.

Think I'll do what you suggest and do a bench test.

Many Thanks
Max

Just a couple of things, Max
Did you get a flue analysis done when the boiler seemed to be running fine? Its the CO2 reading thats important - the air door setting has to be adjusted to set this (I'm not too happy about the 'sooting up' syndrome)
Next, are the boiler baffles clean? Some Trianco's need baffle modification (I believe, though I've never done it) to allow the flue to work correctly.
If I have an unhappy burner, I run it on the bench - which rules out or proves the baffle issue.
John

 

[ManxMax]

Hi Mandate

There is evidence that oil is being discharged from the nozzle.

As for a spark, with the burner cover off I can see a flash from down the back of the control box coming from up the business end (accompanied with a cloud of dirty smoke every time it tries to start (cough!)

Position of electrode is set to spec. at 2 -2.5mm from head of nozzle.

Think I will test each part separately as suggested. Thanks

I'm just trying to apply a bit of logic.
(a)Is there proof that oil is being discharged from the nozzle.
(b)Also is there proof of a spark at the electrodes.

If the above are ok, it could be the spark is not in the correct position relative to the 'cone' of oil discharged.

Noticed a few items replaced, but not the solenoid and I feel it should be checked out.

I had a situation once, where I removed the control box and the photo cell out of the equation. and wired the 'motor/pump', 'transformer/ electrodes' and the 'solenoid' all separate from a switched extension lead.
This way I could test each in turn

 

[Burnerman]

I realise that I am opening myself to a certain degree of ridicule, but my bench test system has got me out of a few problems.....
I have a small tank of kerosene at about 6' high, with a length of clear polythene tube to the burner, complete with 1/4 BSP connections, male and female. The burner is G clamped to a workmate bench.
I rig up a 240v mains supply using crocodile clips ok, ok
When I've bled the polythene pipe of air bubbles, I pull out the photocell and cover it with a cloth to keep it dark and set things going.
When the burner ignites, I let the photocell see light, and this keeps the flame lit. (Hopefully). I point the burner towards the outside of the workshop door...
I can then adjust the oil pump pressure with my gauge (naturally I cant measure CO2).
Using a mirror (or courage) I can see the spark at the electrodes before the burner fires up. Once or twice I've seen the spark arcing across the nozzle or blast tube rather than across the electrodes.
Works for me!
John

 

[ManxMax]

I like your style John!
I'll give that a go. If nothing else, sounds like my kind of fun! Makes sense too!
Thanks
Max

I realise that I am opening myself to a certain degree of ridicule, but my bench test system has got me out of a few problems.....
I have a small tank of kerosene at about 6' high, with a length of clear polythene tube to the burner, complete with 1/4 BSP connections, male and female. The burner is G clamped to a workmate bench.
I rig up a 240v mains supply using crocodile clips ok, ok
When I've bled the polythene pipe of air bubbles, I pull out the photocell and cover it with a cloth to keep it dark and set things going.
When the burner ignites, I let the photocell see light, and this keeps the flame lit. (Hopefully). I point the burner towards the outside of the workshop door...
I can then adjust the oil pump pressure with my gauge (naturally I cant measure CO2).
Using a mirror (or courage) I can see the spark at the electrodes before the burner fires up. Once or twice I've seen the spark arcing across the nozzle or blast tube rather than across the electrodes.
Works for me!
John

 

[Burnerman]

If a dark smoke cloud is seen over the delightful Mona's Isle we'll know who to call
Be lucky!
John

 

[ManxMax]

Well then, after replacing almost everything (I even borrowed a control box). The so-and-so still wouldn't work. So, as a last ditch attempt, I stripped down the burner, cleaned everything (again). Noticed there was some soot in the box. Hmm? Could it be that it built up when it was running for a week and then shut down when it had sooted up? Cleaned it out (cough, cough) reassembled and voila! it fired up first time.

So, soot was being blown around the box and contaminating the fuel mixture. Didn't think that so much soot could build up that quickly. We live and learn, eh?.

Now, just have to sort out why the DHW won't work when the CH is running (probably needs a new pump).

Thanks to all for their advice.

Max

 

[Burnerman]

Max, when you say that there is soot in the 'box', do you mean the part of the boiler that the burner pokes into - the combustion chamber, that is?
If there is soot in there, then there are issues with the burning mixture - fuel pressure, CO2 content etc or choked up baffles.
If alls running well there should be very little soot, and just the odd sulphur deposit with general debris inside the boiler. perhaps there will be a little soot just where the fumes exit the boiler and head for the flue.
Personally I think your boiler has problems with its baffles, and this is the cause of your problems. If the baffles have oily deposits then thats definitely correct.
Thanks for posting back!
John

 

[Agile]

Using a mirror (or courage) I can see the spark at the electrodes before the burner fires up. Once or twice I've seen the spark arcing across the nozzle or blast tube rather than across the electrodes.

Works for me!
John

Sorry if I am stating the obvious, but why can you not go through the ignition sequence BEFORE you connect the oil supply?

Then you can closely observe the spark without risking singeing your eyebrows.

Or am I missing something?

Tony

 

[Burnerman]

Sure you can - no problems there. Disconnecting the solenoid coil will have the same effect.
Some of the early burners have no oil solenoid, just instant ignition so care is needed with that one (Nu Way ZL models, I think).
John

 

[oilhead]

The little bit of soot has probably blocked up the airway through the boiler. If the burner cannot expel air, it won't take any in, and therefore no ignitable mixture. Take an angle grinder to the baffles. Open up all the slots to about twice what they are and you stand a fighting chance of continuity of operation.

 

[ManxMax]

Yes John, the combustion chamber was sooted up. The mixture is set correctly now and running clean. The Trianco manual says a pressure of 130psi but the tech guys at Riello say 8 bar, which, as you know is more like 125psi, coupled with the dubious quality of Manx Petroleum's kerosene and not enough air seems to have been the problem. I will check the baffles again on Saturday, They are placed in as per manual but someone could have replaced them with the wrong ones in the distant past.
Thanks
Max

Max, when you say that there is soot in the 'box', do you mean the part of the boiler that the burner pokes into - the combustion chamber, that is?
If there is soot in there, then there are issues with the burning mixture - fuel pressure, CO2 content etc or choked up baffles.
If alls running well there should be very little soot, and just the odd sulphur deposit with general debris inside the boiler. perhaps there will be a little soot just where the fumes exit the boiler and head for the flue.
Personally I think your boiler has problems with its baffles, and this is the cause of your problems. If the baffles have oily deposits then thats definitely correct.
Thanks for posting back!
John

 

[xr4x4]

Not a fairly new burner then, dont the new ones use max burners?